Interview with Benioff and Weiss about season two and beyond
By Winter Is Coming on in News, Press.

David and Dan

A new interview with Game of Thrones writers and producers David Benioff and D.B. Weiss has surfaced at The Daily Beast. Jace Lacob conducted the interview and, as a fan of the books and the show, he knew all the right questions to ask. Below are a few interesting snippets. Be sure to read the full article for more great info… and a few good laughs as well!

On lessons learned in season one:

Weiss: In general, across the board, we learned the necessity of planning ahead with a show that strives to be ambitious without completely breaking the bank. We can’t afford to waste expensive shots, or shooting days, or ketchup. So we try to stay as far out ahead of everything as we can, we eat what we kill, and now it’s all smooth sailing!

More after the break, including David & Dan’s thoughts on the new cast members and their plans for season three…

On the new season two cast:

Benioff: Melisandre is a tricky role, and very few actresses have all the attributes required. Drop-dead gorgeous? Check. Charismatic and fiercely intelligent? Check. Able to convey a sinister, menacing presence without going over-the-top villainess? Check. In Carice’s hands, Mel is like Lady Macbeth and the three witches rolled into one.

Weiss: Don’t forget Brienne! Gwendoline Christie is fantastic. She so perfectly embodies the kind of wounded strength the character requires. And she’s been training. She will kick your ass.

Benioff: We’ve already shot many of the Yara-Theon scenes, and I’m happy to report that Gemma [Whelan] and Alfie [Allen] make an insanely good pair of siblings. We could make a whole series about the Greyjoys. Speaking of which, we’re negotiating with HBO Family on a Gilly Loves Samwell sitcom. Tom Wlaschiha is a deeply compelling Jaqen. Carice and Stephen Dillane—watching the two of them together is like watching a master class in acting. Liam Cunningham brings humanity and wit to one of our favorite roles, Davos Seaworth. We haven’t shot anything yet with Roose, but we know Michael McElhatton will be superb. And he’s got the palest eyes of anyone I know.

On season three:

Weiss: Season two is a 100-hour-a-week job. It doesn’t leave a lot of time to think about seasons three and beyond. But yes, Storm of Swords … very long, dense book.

Benioff: A Storm of Swords will not be a single season. Beyond that, we’d rather not speculate, as HBO has not yet confirmed a third season and we’re not in the mood to jinx anything.

Winter Is Coming: Did you see that last quote? “A Storm of Swords will not be a single season.” Can I get a “Hell yeah!”?


216 Comments

  1. Niels
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    I’m so so happy with our showrunners. I love these two. Read the whole thing with a smile on my face. I have a feeling the show will be only getting better and better.

    edit: forgot something.. HELL YEAH!

  2. Impi
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Hell yeah!

  3. Michelle
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Loving everything I’m hearing. It’s really great to have showrunners this awesome. Count ourselves lucky, Gatewatchers.

  4. Tere
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Wooohooo! man! this is going to be superb, I can’t wait for season 2!

  5. Knurk
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    The Hodor answer was the best, even better than the jackass and the honeycomb one. It’s good to see how much sense of humour they maintain in what must be a stressfull time for them (a 100 hour a week job, WUT?!).

  6. Tessa Leonie
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    this only serves to make me impatient about season 2, true blood is almost over and the wait is still soooo long. Good thing winter is coming is very good at tiding us all over. (logs in… casting news casting news?? no?? damn!)

  7. Tom Hazel
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Loved the interview! When do you think they’ll release a 15-minute preview/behind-the-scenes video for season 2? (if they will)
    As I remember it was early September last year, but I’m not too sure if they will this time…

  8. Matthias Hinkelmann
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    “A Storm of Swords will not be a single season.”

    Not 1 – can mean 2… but 0 either.

    Anyway: Hell yeah!

  9. Hear Me Roar
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Hell yeah! :)

  10. Hear Me Roar
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    We just love that D&D are always of a mind with the fans – from casting, to how they break down the story, which is why they are the best for the job.

  11. Mario Mjoed
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    HELL YEAH!

    erm, slightly offtopic: when were the first shots from s1 released? september last year? i hope there will be some stuff coming the next 2 month :)

  12. Joonas Taipaleenmaki
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Hell yeah!

  13. Steve
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Oooooow yeah… they’ll probably make 3 season for book 2 and 3…. that’s probably what I would do.

  14. Ed
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    D&D may actually be the best casting the series ever did! Love these guys!!

  15. GrzebykK
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Guys are great.
    I thank the Seven, the Old Gods, the Drowned God and R’hllor together for their passion for ASoIaF.
    And they are funny, too.

  16. Josh Parker
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    I’m a little annoyed that they still won’t confirm whether the Tullys and Reeds will be included.

  17. haiku_hodor
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Thanks to Dave and Dan
    Shakespearean Hodor here
    Season Three hell yeah

  18. Epic Awesomesauce
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    I love what Benioff says about Melisandre. Right on!

  19. Tar Kidho
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    D&D arent’t perfect, but they are great. Allways support the Hell Yeah!!

  20. EvilPicnic
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Hell yeah! Splitting aSoS into two seasons will be the best thing they do- this is awesome news, and it’s so good to hear them (?read them) being so passionate about the characters.

    This has absolutely made my day :)

  21. tysnow
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Seven Hells, yeah!

    Gwen has been training, and will kick your ass! Carice and Stephen’s peformance, a Master class in acting. Hodor and Pudding, lol, D&D rule. Can’t wait for the Yara/Theon verbal duel, and the best news, SoS won’t be one season.

  22. Nick Larter
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Well I guess one reason that ASoS won’t be just one season is that some of it is likely to appear in S2, rather than S3, if speculation about Jaime’s story is well founded.

  23. John W
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Can. Not. Wait. For. Season. 2.

  24. Marilyn Bones
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!

  25. Cajunman
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    These guys don’t just understand us, each of them is one of us!

  26. Hear Me Roar
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    Okay guys, keep this praise and trust in mind when we next hear a rumour about some change from the books :)

    Based on all we know, our thoughts, and D&D being in agreement with us: some scenes from ASoS in S2, first two thirds of ASoS = S3 (ends with RW). The rest combined with the remaining two books to fuel further seasons.

  27. purplejilly
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    My daughter would watch a Gilly loves Samwell HBO Family special! So would I! But what she really wants is just the Night’s Watch special. Because the dynamic is kind of like school, with students, and mean teachers, but there are these evil monsters out there beyond the wall, too, which makes it scarier! And it would be easy for them to make the Night’s Watch PG.

  28. userj
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    OMG they are such goofballs. <3 them. ASoIaF/GoT fans often take themselves too seriously, glad these guys can have a laugh, lol.

    I am so glad Sam + Gilly will be played up, especially with that actor, he's such a doll.

    I MUST HAVE BRIENNE/JAIME AND STANNIS NOWNOWNOW *dies*

    I also think from their “Dany in the Big City” comment that Quarth will be portrayed sort of like Rome. Cool w/ me.

  29. Butterbumps
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    Hell NOOOOOO. I want the whole series to be covered in 6 seasons.

  30. rob
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    “people are really going to like Theon, I think.”

    bwahahahahahahahahah!

    so coy, Mr. Weiss!

  31. Josh Parker
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Butterbumps,

    Be careful what you wish for.

  32. stu
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Hell YEAH!

  33. TastesLikeTheSea
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Imagine if the series got canceled after season 3 part 1. Lol that would suck sooooooo much..

  34. Mr. Crow
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    I think the best answer they gave is “we want the audience to draw their own conclusions about S2 instead of giving away too much now.”

    Adaptation isn’t easy. 10 episodes is not a lot of narrative space. If a year from now, we’re all sitting here saying “S2 didn’t adapt as well as S1″ then that’s feedback D&D can work with going into the entirely theoretical S3.

    I for one am hoping that the reason we haven’t heard anything about the Reeds is because casting children is also hard, but if their entry into the Bran narrative is saved until S3, I’m not really going to be too troubled.

  35. burth
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    rob:
    “people are really going to like Theon, I think.”

    bwahahahahahahahahah!

    so coy, Mr. Weiss!

    Theon was my favourite character in ACOK along with Tyrion, but (as it was with the books) I don’t see many TV fans agreeing with me on that one ;)

  36. Igor Veloso
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Hell Yeah!!

  37. Josh Parker
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Mr. Crow,

    The problem is they are introduced in Bran’s third chapter and are a huge, huge part of his story for this book. If they’re not introduced now, then when?

    Although come to think of it, Bran only has 4 chapters in book 3, which will be two seasons long. Maybe they’re saving the Reeds for then so Bran’s story can be stretched.

    Maybe this season Bran’s story will mostly concentrate on his trying to be Lord of Winterfell.

  38. Shadowcat85
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    That was one of the best interviews they’ve given. Thanks for posting! Can’t wait for Hodor’s monologue ;)

  39. The Rabbit
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Hell Yeah ;)

    I love those guys!

  40. You-know-nothing
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    So cool, love the interview.

    Still want the casting news though, notice how they didn’t mention the Reeds or Tully’s???

  41. Grujah
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    “And Theon. People are really going to like Theon, I think. He makes some bold moves.”

    Now this is nice! And “some bold moves” sums it up so nice. I always loved that guy, from start till the end. Still do.

  42. Skye
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Hell yeah!!

  43. The Lightning Lord
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    If you watched the Comic-Con press conference, Weiss and Benioff do mention that they wanted to divide the 3rd book into two seasons.

  44. Epic Awesomesauce
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    You-know-nothing,

    why kill a buzz?

    Shadowcat85,

    to Hodor! or not to Hodor!, that is the Hodor!.

  45. Wolfheart
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    “D. B. Weiss: The night before, we made a dinner bet with some friends that the show wouldn’t get a drama-series nomination. I never would have made this bet if I thought there was a real chance of us being nominated. I really had no intention of buying them dinner.

    Benioff: Actually, I still don’t.

    Weiss: Yeah! Screw them!”

    DICKS! YOU OWN UP!
    Your friends knew better than you!

  46. You-know-nothing
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Epic Awesomesauce,

    Wow!! If i killed your buzz then i’m sorry, i was simply making an observation. Highlighting a point that has been a hot topic of discussion for the last few weeks.

    If I upset anyone else with my comments, please accept my apologies.

  47. Ali
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    “We will address [the sexposition] issue with a 20-minute brothel scene involving a dozen whores, Mord the Jailer, a jackass, and a large honeycomb,”

    LMAO

  48. Shadowcat85
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Epic Awesomesauce,

    His monologue would basically be Hodor as every other word haha (reminds me of the aliens on South Park who use Marklar for everything).

  49. Epic Awesomesauce
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    You-know-nothing,

    Oh, I meant rhetorically: why should they kill a buzz (ie., buzzing rumors). Sorry you thought i was attacking you!

  50. You-know-nothing
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Epic Awesomesauce,

    Oh, ok.. Do i feel sheepish :-s, no harm done ;-D

  51. Ro
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    What if he just means that ASoS is going to bleed into Season 2 and thus, will not be one season.

  52. Superdeluxe
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Love the info!

  53. skipdutch
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Hear Me Roar
    I really hope they don’t end with RW. That would be like ending Season 1 with Ned’s execution. Everyone would be disgusted and refuse to come back in a year. Better to end with a glimmer of hope and a cliffhanger. They should go a little further and cover 3/4 of ASoS. End with Sansa V. That gives vengeance (Jeoffry’s death) a cliffhanger (Tyrion’s last scene is being arrested. What will happen to him?) and a big reveal (So, that’s Littlefinger’s game!).

  54. andrea
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    userj: ASoIaF/GoT fans often take themselves too seriously, glad these guys can have a laugh,

    THIS!

    ” Hodor”… perfect answer.

  55. Justin
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Remember, Rome had no shortage of viewers, nor did it lack critical acclaim, yet HBO canceled it after two seasons because it was too costly to produce. I fear GoT could go out the same way. It’s reassuring to hear Weiss and Benioff mention ASOS and season three, though. Let’s just hope they make it that far. It would be a shame if HBO didn’t follow this all the way through (assuming it doesn’t take GRRM another decade to finish the books).

  56. Johan Sporre
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Haha, “love Theon”? I think we’ll have viewers who want to get into their TVs to do nasty stuff to him.

    I’m very encouraged by their words about Gwendoline! I’m very much looking forward to Brienne.

  57. alex
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    skipdutch,

    All we can do is hope. But I’m sure they know just how to mix it up and bring the drama and still keep people interested.
    Anyway, season 2 is probably well set in stone by this time, script-wise.

  58. Tom Hilton
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Great interview, and it so confirms for me that these two are the right ones to be doing this.

    Justin, I’ve read that HBO execs regret having canceled Rome so early; with DVD sales, it ended up being relatively profitable. My sense is that they learned their lesson, and are more committed to multiple seasons of GoT. (Of course, we all need to go out and buy Season 1 DVDs as soon as they come available!)

  59. Josh Parker
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Justin,

    How many times does this need to be addressed?

    1) GoT costs far less to produce than Rome did.

    2) BBC co-produced Rome for the first season and pulled out suddenly for the second, leaving HBO to foot the bill they had once been splitting. GoT is entirely funded by HBO from the get-go.

    3) The executive who decided to cancel Rome isn’t even employed by HBO anymore.

    4) HBO execs have said repeatedly how much faith they have in the show.

    5) They have also said how much they regret cancelling Rome.

    If GoT is cancelled after its second season, I’ll be shocked. The only way it could happen is if subscriptions nose-dive.

  60. Strong Belwas
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    skipdutch:
    Hear Me Roar
    I really hope they don’t end with RW.That would be like ending Season 1 with Ned’s execution.Everyone would be disgusted and refuse to come back in a year.Better to end with a glimmer of hope and a cliffhanger.They should go a little further and cover 3/4 of ASoS.End with Sansa V.That gives vengeance (Jeoffry’s death) a cliffhanger (Tyrion’s last scene is being arrested.What will happen to him?) and a big reveal (So, that’s Littlefinger’s game!).

    I think it would be ok to end with RW, but “end” in the sense that it goes in the second-to-last episode, and the last episode deals with the fallout from that event. That’s what they did in the first season – Ned’s death is in Ep 9 – and it’s what they are going to do in the second season – S2E9 is “Blackwater.” They won’t need to stretch to come up with cliffhangers for the end of S3, since there are a huge number of plot threads up in the air at that point in aSoS. I’m more interested in what they will show in the final episode of S3 – what will be their hopeful “dragon moment”? Or will they just end on the massive downer?

  61. Winter Is Coming
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Josh Parker,

    Not to mention that Game of Thrones has more viewers than Rome did, more buzz than Rome had, and more critical acclaim and awards.

    So yeah, we’re in good shape.

  62. Janet Kane
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    burth,

    I don’t get why anyone would like Theon Greyjoy, he’s revolting and just so deluded about himself. (Poor little boy)

  63. Epic Awesomesauce
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    skipdutch,

    I always understood DB’s quote from SDCC “if we can get to the RW, I will happy” to mean “If we can get to RW, the show would practically sell itself going forward.”

    It’s interesting to think about what exactly D&D are going to pitch to HBO execs about the future of this show after they are done with this season. In other words, what they think is best for the show and at the same time be realistic with the business side of things.

    They do seem in good spirits. Guessing it’s that irish whiskey.

  64. Shandy
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Benioff: We’d prefer to let the audience watch season two and make their own judgments, rather than revealing too much now.

    Weiss: Hodor.

    I’m beginning to love these guys as much as I love some of the characters.

  65. Superdeluxe
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    skipdutch,

    What kind of hope could you end for? spoiler about book 3 – We get undead cat and she swears revenge? Cat’s throat getting slit is the perfect ending. Powerful and Epic. No one is going to leave, everyone said they weren’t coming back after Ned got his head cut off..and the finale actually had a increase.

  66. burth
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Janet Kane,

    Ok, I agree about his self-delusions and I don’t cheer for many of his actions, but I can empathize with his situation.

    ACOK spoilers: I believe he set out with good intentions, i.e. helping Robb win and making a name for himself in the process, but then he ends up being humiliated by his sister, mocked by his father and not respected by his own people from which he was taken at a young age. He is faced with many very tough choices: returning to help robb, if thats even possible vs. supporting the greyjoys, taking on a very minor role in the war vs. trying to regain his family’s appreciation, abandoning the occupation of winterfell in shame after Bran & co’s disappearance vs. trying to hold onto power. He always ends up doing the “bad” thing from a Stark perspective, but from his own point of view I can understand his decisions and his chapters make for very compelling reading.

  67. Langkard
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    Ooh, thank you for this! Most of my worries about seasons after 2 have been shot down, exploded, ripped to shreds, scared off into the bushes, made more miniscule than George Costanza after he was in the pool…

    I’m happy. Well, mostly…

    …marches about chanting protest slogans, waving anarchist flags and smacking people with a 10-pound trout painted black.

  68. andrea
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Langkard: marches about chanting protest slogans, waving anarchist flags and smacking people with a 10-pound trout painted black.

    love the idea! Like “the dance of the fish slapping” (Monty Python).

  69. sjwenings
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Langkard: Ooh, thank you for this! Most of my worries about seasons after 2 have been shot down, exploded, ripped to shreds, scared off into the bushes, made more miniscule than George Costanza after he was in the pool…

    I guess my biggest worry about season 2 was (quite a bit) more divergence(?) from the books. This worry has not been put to rest. “Hodor”?

  70. James
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    The RW would be an awful way to end a season. I know a lot of fans just love that sadist stuff about this story and just cant wait to see good characters be brutally murdered on TV but most people do not. There is only one season a year and you dont want to leave your audience with an image like that. Imagine the season finale of season 1 being Ned getting his head chopped off, it would have been an awful and depressing way to end a season but works great for the penultimate episode. The season finale should be Joffreys wedding, there would be a lot of good cliffhangers, especially for Sansa, and would leave all the stuff with Jon and the wildlings at the wall for another season.

  71. MW
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    James,

    Spoiler tags please.

  72. Thiago Slash
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    This interviews is AWESOME! These guys are great!

    But I’m still raising my black trout banner!

    EDIT: why are there people discussing the end of S3, when S2 hasn’t even started yet? =P

  73. sjwenings
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    So on the 10th of september last year we got this teaser for the first season http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAZzCFPcLoo&feature=relmfu (I don’t count the teaser from the pilot, since there was no pilot filmed for season 2)

    One can only assume this means only 11 days till the first teaser from season 2? Eheehhh?

  74. Blueberry2
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    I hope so, it could come before the season premiere of Boardwalk Empire on Sept 25 maybe.

  75. sjwenings
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Blueberry2: I hope so, it could come before the season premiere of Boardwalk Empire on Sept 25 maybe.

    I don’t really think so, actually. I think the very early teasers were somewhat of a fan service, and also it seems more “natural” to promote a new series more and longer than the new season of an established series.

    Am I wrong? I hope I am..

  76. Lex
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Here’s my big fear:

    They split Book 3 into two seasons (Seasons 3 & 4)… but HBO only takes the show to three seasons, meaning we only ever get to see the first half of Book 3.

    Hopefully that doesn’t happen.

  77. Shinyteapot
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    I am looking forward to RW in as much as it will be epic and amazing to see- but not looking forward to it for many obvious reasons too! Don’t think it’s the best way to end a series (and definitely not a good way to end the whole show if it doesn’t go on beyond 3 years- though I hope it does). The slightly later W is in my opinion a better point to end if it can be done.

  78. furrever
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    rob: “people are really going to like Theon, I think.”

    bwahahahahahahahahah!

    so coy, Mr. Weiss!

    His made me LOL as well. I think his tongue was firmly pressed in cheek when he said that.

  79. Yellow Dog
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Benioff on sexposition: “We will address this issue with a 20-minute brothel scene involving a dozen whores, Mord the Jailer, a jackass, and a large honeycomb.”

    Stop teasing me, you cruel, cruel man!

  80. The White Bullshit
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings: I guess my biggest worry about season 2 was (quite a bit) more divergence(?) from the books. This worry has not been put to rest. “Hodor”?

    Word.

    In fact I don’t think D&D will be able to make this what it should be. I’m highly skeptical going in to season 2 because of all the (rumored) changes.

    I give it 5% chance of being so good that I’m willing to overlook most of the changes.

  81. Josh Atreides
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Not to dump on the Season 2 SuperAwesomeDavidandDavid show but…we need to get some ASOIAF supporters on this website stat! Ginia Bellafante is NOTHING compared this.

    WOW.

    http://tigerbeatdown.com/2011/08/26/enter-ye-myne-mystic-world-of-gayng-raype-what-the-r-stands-for-in-george-r-r-martin

    and a balanced response to it:

    http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2011/08/29/305723/feminist-media-criticism-george-r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-and-that-sady-doyle-piece

    It’s great ASOIAF is huge now. But this is one of the disadvantages of its popularity: the backlash.

  82. sjwenings
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Shinyteapot: The slightly later W is in my opinion a better point to end if it can be done.

    I guess better if we only get three seasons, but not, if we get a fourth IMO. Joffrey, and by extention the Lannisters finally getting some justice served, is pretty good for ending the show, but two brutal weddings in a row – ep9 and 10 – seems a little overkill. Also – they are not connected, so it wouldn’t really be a revenge for the RW, and therefore seem a little random if ending the season with it. If the Starks poisoned Joffrey, it would work a lot better, but…

  83. Phil
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    A brilliant interview, and some great insights.

    As to ASoS being split into 2 seasons. We’ve already seen some elements from the book have been brought forward into S2 (Jayne Weterling for one). If they manage to sprinkle some of the minor plot points throughout S2 then it will free S3 (If we get it) up and lead it better into S4 (really hoping we get there).

    Also ending S3 on the RW wouldn’t be a negative thing. Remember “Who Shot JR” anyone? They don’t actually have to show Cat having her throat cut or Robb being killed, they can show the lead up, show them being attacked, Robb injured maybe and then….to be continued

  84. The Rabbit
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    In fact I don’t think D&D will be able to make this what it should be. I’m highly skeptical going in to season 2 because of all the (rumored) changes.

    Could someone make a list of the possible rumored changes for me (because I think I am missing something – cause nothing I am aware of now seems so crucial to me).

  85. purplejilly
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    On a whiny note, I’m actually annoyed that D&D didn’t address the ‘sexposition’ question in a meaningful way, and just made a big joke out of it all. They could have addressed it honestly, with answers like “We didn’t realize we had so much in there until the episodes were already edited” or “we thought the fans would enjoy it”. What I gather from what they did say is that is they think anyone who was annoyed by the sexposition, or found it juvenile as a plot device, or awkward as something to watch, get ready for more of the same. Oh well, so much for class.

  86. purplejilly
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    furrever,
    I wonder if they have made changes to his character? Maybe it’s not a joke? Maybe they have made Theon ‘likable’?

  87. sjwenings
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    purplejilly: They could have addressed it honestly, with answers like “We didn’t realize we had so much in there until the episodes were already edited” or “we thought the fans would enjoy it”.

    Well, maybe that wouldnt be an honest feedback, then. Seems like they knew just about what response they would get, but decided it was worth it, because you can’t please everyone.

    Theres been several complaints, but I think the complainers are more like to voice their opinion, rather than the ones who like/are indifferent to it. Also, theres the nonbookreaders to consider, of course, who are not so vocal. So I think theres probably less people that have a problem with it than you think.

  88. knowsomething
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Phil,

    I hate cliffhangers. I think they are usually unnecessary and usually just piss me off. The cliffhanger regarding Jon in ADwD comes immediately to mind. If you ended the third season that way, you are giving non-book readers false hope that Robb and Catelyn are alive. That would be worse than just showing the audience that they are dead for sure. (Yes, I know that Cat is UnCat now, but that’s hardly living, is it?) How to end the third season is going to be challenging. I think there needs to be some kind of satisfaction for the audience. I think A Storm of Swords ended in a great way in that you felt hopeful, despite all the horribleness that happened in the novel. I say end it with Joffrey’s Wedding. It would give the audience some of the vengeance they will crave by that point. Where did A Storm of Swords divide in the UK version of the book? That could be useful to know.

  89. Angela Bomar
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    I can’t wait for Season 2. I wonder if they will show Season 1 in Germany at some point.

  90. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    I would love this to be the case, but I can’t help thinking we won’t get one this early. Although they will certainly pimp the show, the stakes were much higher last year when they were starting from scratch. I expect if we do get anything this early it will be very basic, like the teaser at the end of season 1.

    Regarding the interview, it was definitely one of the better ones (which tend to rehash the same general questions, over and over), but it doesn’t tell us a whole lot and I actually found the comment about the pudding (etc) a little concerning and a bit flippant. I would have liked some real answers rather than JUST joking (although joking is fine too!).
    My problem with how D&D and GRRM himself have answered the sexposition question is that they don’t seem to understand what it is people are having a problem with. It’s not the presence of sex itself, or how uncomfortable rape scenes are (if I remember correctly there was that one article which dealt with how the rape scenes were mostly left out and then “sexy” scenes added). Rather, I feel that most of the complaints are to do with the fact that a large portion of that material is superfluous and that it cheapens the show a bit. By all means, keep important sex scenes, but it will come off as even more cheesy if, following all the intelligent criticism of this season, they throw in more sexposition with Roz, who is to be joined by her cousin, Loz, the only whore across the Narrow Sea.

  91. Lisa
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Angela Bomar:
    I can’t wait for Season 2. I wonder if they will show Season 1 in Germany at some point.

    TNT Serie will show it sometime in November or December, I think.

  92. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    Hahaha. Sorry, I pretty much reiterated what you’d already said. I left my browser open on this page for awhile before commenting. I should try not to do that so much.

  93. skipdutch
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Phil,

    I am a proponent of Who Shot JR scenario actually. However,it would be who Poisoned Joffry (a principle villian, like JR in Dallas). The mystery would be there, we would have the suspects, Sansa, Tyrion, Littlefinger(if they chose to carry it that far. I also like ending it with everyone looking around wondering where Sansa disappeared, and they can save the Littlefinger reveal)
    Just my preference, I am sure S3 will be excellent regardless of where they chose to end it.

  94. Steven Swanson
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    rob: “people are really going to like Theon, I think.”bwahahahahahahahahah!so coy, Mr. Weiss!

    I like your take on it, when I read that quote I was more like “Are you out of your freaking mind?!?”

  95. Nimble Dick
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    SO EXCITED
    SO EXCITED
    SO EXCITED
    SUNDAYS IN APRIL

  96. Elena Amici
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Steve:
    Oooooow yeah… they’ll probably make 3 season for book 2 and 3…. that’s probably what I would do.

    they probably will do 3 seasons for books 3-5. Dance and feast are mostly unfilmable.

    Hear Me Roar,
    yeah, like this.
    Anyway, how did the “HELL YEAH” started? lol

    i like this.
    skipdutch,

    also, hodor’s monologue: hodor hodor hodor? hodor, hodor, hodor!! Hod-or!! Hod, hod, hodor hodor hodor. WHAT THE HODOR? HODOR!

    Johan Sporre: Haha, “love Theon”? I think we’ll have viewers who want to get into their TVs to do nasty stuff to him.

    theon, dear, will finally get the love he deserves (yeah, fangirl mode: ON)

  97. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    I agree with those who think it would be foolish to end the third season with the Red Wedding. I know it’s dramatic and unexpected (sort of), but it doesn’t even work on that level as an end to a season. Think of the story up to that point in A Song of Swords; is the RW really a great place to leave the audience hanging for a year? Not at all, in my opinion, and I highly doubt that D&D would risk the future of the show on ending it there.

    As for how I see it playing out, I like the idea of Joffrey’s Wedding ending the season. With some of the third book being used in season two, I fully expect the third season to be roughly 2/3′s of ASoS and the fourth season to be the conclusion of ASoS along with segments from A Feast For Crows & A Dance With Dragons. That allows season five to conclude the story of the last two novels, possibly (likely) with some material from The Winds of Winter. That scenario also keeps the number of seasons in line with the number of novels, up to this point.

  98. Elena Amici
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    i think D&D are going to ask HBO for a 2-season renewal.

    Also, i think, the best episode for the RW is the 8th. 9 is to close to the end.. If they put it on the 8th episode, they can also show us the Purple W. in episode 10th (what a way to end!!)

  99. Pastor_of_Muppets
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Elena Amici:
    Lex,

    i think D&D are going to ask HBO for a 2-season renewal.

    Also, i think, the best episode for the RW is the 8th. 9 is to close to the end.. If they put it on the 8th episode, they can also show us the Purple W. in episode 10th (what a way to end!!)

    Agreed.

  100. Elena Amici
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    purplejilly:
    furrever,
    I wonder if they have made changes to his character?Maybe it’s not a joke?Maybe they have made Theon ‘likable’?

    theon IS likable. People are just prejudiced towards him, mostly because of the sack of WF (which wasn’t entirely theon’s fault BTW. Ramsay anyone?) He’s more likable than jaime-the-things-i-do-for-love-Lannister (and i’m a jaime fan!) and WAY way more likable than Roose Bolton will ever be (i’m always shocked when i read online stuff like “roose is awesome!!” next to “theon has to die!”)

  101. Shinyteapot
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    I envisage about the same, possibly with some individual storylines moved about a bit to work better on TV. e.g. Dany doesn’t have many chapters in ASOS and her story from ADWD is not enough for two years (please no! 2 years in Meereen=cancellation for sure!) so with any luck some of her chapters from TWOW will move up a bit.

  102. Alwyn
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Justin:
    Remember, Rome had no shortage of viewers, nor did it lack critical acclaim, yet HBO canceled it after two seasons because it was too costly to produce. I fear GoT could go out the same way.

    That was a different situation though. Rome was a collaboration between HBO and BBC, who suddenly pulled out and left HBO having to pay for everything. But of course D/D have to manage their budget as best as possible.

  103. Alexander Dubrovsky
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    As for how I see it playing out, I like the idea of Joffrey’s Wedding ending the season. With some of the third book being used in season two, I fully expect the third season to be roughly 2/3′s of ASoS and the fourth season to be the conclusion of ASoS along with segments from A Feast For Crows & A Dance With Dragons. That allows season five to conclude the story of the last two novels, possibly (likely) with some material from The Winds of Winter. That scenario also keeps the number of seasons in line with the number of novels, up to this point.

    I like it. Have RW be in the end on 8th or 9th episode, a-la Ned’s death, and let the season end on something positive. There’s no need for more than 1.5 seasons for AFFC+ADWD.

  104. Hunter
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Excellent interview — very encouraging!

    Also just wanted to support all my fellow Theon-lovers out there. He’s perhaps the most compelling character the series has produced.

  105. Starkgirl
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Ahaha! I loved it when one of them answered a question with “Hodor.”

  106. Andrea Spencer
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Pudding anyone?

  107. daveb
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Josh Atreides: Not to dump on the Season 2 SuperAwesomeDavidandDavid show but…we need to get some ASOIAF supporters on this website stat! Ginia Bellafante is NOTHING compared this.

    WOW.

    http://tigerbeatdown.com/2011/08/26/enter-ye-myne-mystic-world-of-gayng-raype-what-the-r-stands-for-in-george-r-r-martin

    and a balanced response to it:

    http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2011/08/29/305723/feminist-media-criticism-george-r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-and-that-sady-doyle-piece

    It’s great ASOIAF is huge now. But this is one of the disadvantages of its popularity: the backlash.

    That first one is UNBELIEVABLY condescending. But, to each their own, I guess. It was saddening to see a lot of comments that ended with “I will never ever read these books. Thanks Sady!”

    Second review did a great job. Especially pointing out all the strong females that the first one chose to ignore, basically because they had no glaring weaknesses for her to exploit.

  108. Moe
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    “We could make a whole series about the Greyjoys.”

    For the love of God! Please NO!

  109. Bro
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Love those guys. Such handsome, funny and clever men! :L They always do great interviews. This one would have been fun as a video.
    Re Theon, I can’t quite explain why but I’ve always loved his character. If people really think about it, he’s not the worst character in ASOIAF.
    P.S. HELL YEAH!

  110. Nicole
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    Why haven’t we heard anything about Ygritte yet? I am really hoping we get a ‘big’ name actress for Ygritte and that is why the announcement is taking so long.

  111. KG
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    Janet Kane,

    He’s a lonely outcast, desperate for the love and approval of a father figure – any father figure at all.

    It’s a strong character background.

  112. the goat
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    Pastor_of_Muppets:
    I agree with those who think it would be foolish to end the third season with the Red Wedding. I know it’s dramatic and unexpected (sort of), but it doesn’t even work on that level as an end to a season. Think of the story up to that point in A Song of Swords; is the RW really a great place to leave the audience hanging for a year? Not at all, in my opinion, and I highly doubt that D&D would risk the future of the show on ending it there.

    As for how I see it playing out, I like the idea of Joffrey’s Wedding ending the season. With some of the third book being used in season two, I fully expect the third season to be roughly 2/3′s of ASoS and the fourth season to be the conclusion of ASoS along with segments from A Feast For Crows & A Dance With Dragons. That allows season five to conclude the story of the last two novels, possibly (likely) with some material from The Winds of Winter. That scenario also keeps the number of seasons in line with the number of novels, up to this point.

    Yeah, this seems like the logical place to end S3, including Sansa’s escape from KL/the Littlefinger reveal, and also finishing up Arya’s SoS arc (“Valar dohaeris” as she gets on the ship to Braavos) since its only two or three scenes after RW if you cut out their stop in the village near the Mountains of the Moon. That saves the wildlings at the Wall, Tyrion’s trial, the Vale, and however much Dany stuff you want for S4. Perhaps end Dany’s scenes with the Strong Belwas duel at Yunkai (hopefully in S4 they would then have enough time/money to show the secret invasion of Meereen), Jon’s scenes with him ditching the wildlings once the get over the Wall, and Bran’s scenes at the holdfast in the lake.

  113. Josh Parker
    Posted August 30, 2011 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    Nicole,

    Don’t hold your breath for this either. If they didn’t get “big” names to play Stannis or Davos, I’d say we can expect someone we’ve never heard of for Ygritte.

    I think the reason it’s taking this long is that they haven’t started filming her scenes yet and are taking their time to find the right person. Hopefully that’s also why we haven’t heard anything about the Reeds.

  114. Obsidian
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    Josh Parker,

    I don’t think we can expect a “name ” for Ygritte , either..but I think they’ve done so well with the other relatively unknown young cast members, I’m simply curious rather than worried about that casting.

    Remembering Kit’s slip – up , he said they’d be filming in Iceland late in the year and a lot of his story with Ygritte takes place outdoors. There’s been more than one hint dropped about this season being the season of romance for Robb and Jon ( not together , Paco..don’t swoon ) ;) ..so I agree that there’s time for finding Ygritte and for the Reeds , as well , depending on their shooting schedule.

  115. HODOR
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 2:34 am | Permalink

    HODOR!!!!

  116. Sid
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    Shadowcat85:
    Epic Awesomesauce,

    His monologue would basically be Hodor as every other word haha (reminds me of the aliens on South Park who use Marklar for everything).

    Hehe, and isn’t that taken from the Smurfs? As I recall it they basically replaces 2/3rds of all nouns with “smurf”. Anyway “Hell Yeah!”. And I love the idea with RW in ep3:8 and JW in ep3:10. End it with Sansa getting on the boat but not reveal LF.

  117. J Tauff
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 4:02 am | Permalink

    I hope I live long enough to see it ends. Any news about when the blu-ray?DVD of season 1 comes out?

  118. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 4:08 am | Permalink

    Josh Parker,
    You-know-nothing,
    Actually that pleased me, and I’m relieved and not inclined to blackfish D&D. I much prefer their silence about Tullys, Reeds and Ygritte than half-answers that could mean everything or nothing. After all, Balon and Pod where cast quietly and with no previous word on them from the powers that be.

    As someone said, I agree that Bran’s story might have relatively little room in S2, so the Reeds might be pushed to S3 (we need an S3!). No Reeds at all would be, in my view, an earth-shattering change from GRRM’s plot – it would mean no Howland, no TOJ at all and maybe no R+L=J.

    Langkard,
    Thiago Slash,
    andrea,
    you have my bow with fiery arrows! And my Blackfish pin! Not the ring with a black fish on it I hoped to buy while on vacation, because I didn’t find it :(

    Steve Hugh Westenra,
    agree on all points. Though the sexposition joke was hilarious, and showed how much they are aware of what fans liked of their work, I’m uneasy when sex is banalized and/or strumentalized. Sex is an important, complicated and delicate part of everybody’s life and is different for everyone, so I’d wish for a more cautious, respectful approach.

    Lastly, isn’t Sam+Gilly a rather massive spoiler?

    Bravely supporting the bottom and fighting apathy…

  119. Blackfish Blues
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 5:12 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides:
    Not to dump on the Season 2 SuperAwesomeDavidandDavid show but…we need to get some ASOIAF supporters on this website stat! Ginia Bellafante is NOTHING compared this.

    WOW.

    http://tigerbeatdown.com/2011/08/26/enter-ye-myne-mystic-world-of-gayng-raype-what-the-r-stands-for-in-george-r-r-martin

    and a balanced response to it:

    http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2011/08/29/305723/feminist-media-criticism-george-r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-and-that-sady-doyle-piece

    It’s great ASOIAF is huge now. But this is one of the disadvantages of its popularity: the backlash.

    Very interesting pieces, thanks for posting the links. I think they deserve their own thread here on WiC, or at least to be included in the next “Quick Hits”. I haven’t even finished reading them and already have a ton of comments.

  120. HouseLark
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    SO what are people thinking of the the natural cut point for ASOS? Meaning, where do you think Season 3 will end now that we know ASOS will be split?

  121. Chris77
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    HouseLark,

    I would cut before RW, otherwise there might be a huge drop in viewers if there is a 1 year break after that traumatic event. S4 could start with the RW that way the viewers would find some hope in Joff’s wedding. It would end like the book, with Sansas escape (maybe without the LF reveal) and Tywin on the privy;), Jon as LC.

  122. Katerina
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    Trying to be original but … HELL YEAH! hell yeah hell yeah hell yeah. seven hells yeah! I’m so glad about the greyjoys, can’t wait to see them. Also the Sam loves Gilly site is a great idea. And, have I mentioned HELL YEAH ?!

  123. Ron E.
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    I hope the flipside of book 3 being more than one season is book 4 and 5 are about 2-3 episodes each.

  124. Eric
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    All I can say is April can’t come soon enough. I hate when the season ends though. Just more waiting. But A’s long A’s they do it right, the wait will be forgotten about after season 3 starts. I just hate the long wait between seasons. But that tells you it’s a great story.

  125. Rob Volz
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Chris77:
    HouseLark,

    I would cut before RW, otherwise there might be a huge drop in viewers if there is a 1 year break after that traumatic event. S4 could start with the RW that way the viewers would find some hope in Joff’s wedding. It would end like the book, with Sansas escape (maybe without the LF reveal) and Tywin on the privy;), Jon as LC.

    No offense, but what do you expect to see in S3? What would be the climax/cliffhanger? If anything, the show will speed up events, not slow them down. Aside from Jamie losing his hand, there aren’t any huge events that happen in the 1st half of SoS. D&D have already said that Jaime’s scenes will be expanded (good idea, since they already used his only scene from Book 2). Speculation is that he may lose his hand at the end of S2. Also, Jeyne Westerling has been cast for S2, so its almost a given we will see the Robb/Jeyne romance/marriage next year. Doesn’t leave enough to do in S3. See my earlier comment, I think its a good estimate of where everyone’s arcs will conclude for S3.

    edit: by “earlier comment,” I meant my comment under my normal username, the goat. Stupid facebook is being stupid, and won’t allow me to use my username right now.

  126. Epic Awesomesauce
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    Blackfish Blues,

    looool.. i love Sady’s rant even if it is extremely rantish. Like marking all the flaws in a somehow really good movie. If GRRM was tethered with writing an ‘enlightened’ pulp fantasy it would probably be so boring he would get bored writing it. That SoIaF is savage makes it entertaining, as it should be; a guilty entertainment.

    Now, if I can only get through Dance of Dragons. I fell asleep last night to something like “boiled beef isn’t good without horseradish sauce”.

  127. Elena Amici
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    Blackfish Blues: As someone said, I agree that Bran’s story might have relatively little room in S2, so the Reeds might be pushed to S3 (we need an S3!). No Reeds at all would be, in my view, an earth-shattering change from GRRM’s plot – it would mean no Howland, no TOJ at all and maybe no R+L=J.

    i’ll say it again: If R+L is indeed equal to J, we’ll have it in the show, because D&D already guessed it. If R+L is nothing more than a fan theory, we won’t be seeing it. The reason why they’re talking so long with the R+L scenes is, IMO, to not give them away at the beginning (which is what happened with the books)

    Pastor_of_Muppets,

    yes, this.

  128. the goat
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides,
    Blackfish Blues,
    Epic Awesomesauce,

    PLEASE don’t even feed this troll! The “feminist” anti-GRRM argument has been around for years (decades, by the time WoW comes out?). Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, and if WiC wants to start a separate entry to discuss this, fine. But PLEASE let’s not start one here. This interview gives us plenty to discuss, no need to throw gasoline on a fire started by an attention-seeking troll.

  129. Abyss
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Angela Bomar,
    Lisa,

    The series will air in Germany and Austria on TNT Serie, premiere planned for November 2.

    http://winter-is-coming.net/features/international-airings/
    (-;

  130. purplejilly
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra: By all means, keep important sex scenes, but it will come off as even more cheesy if, following all the intelligent criticism of this season, they throw in more sexposition with Roz, who is to be joined by her cousin, Loz, the only whore across the Narrow Sea.

    Exactly.. I’m worried they don’t ‘get it’ either.

  131. Cheri
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Ha ha!! did anyone else notice that it says “pimps” if you hoover your mouse of the picture in certain areas? LOL

  132. Sid
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Cheri:
    Ha ha!! did anyone else notice that it says “pimps” if you hoover your mouse of the picture in certain areas? LOL

    No, but I tried just now, and LMAO, it does! DB and Dan, da Pimps!

  133. Winter Is Coming
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Cheri, ha, you found it. I meant that in a good way btw. But now that the discussion has turned to the “sexposition” thing again, I’m worried people might think I was using it in a derogatory sense.

    While we’re on the subject though, David & Dan’s humorous response to the “sexposition” question doesn’t seem like them not “getting it”, more like a deflection of the question. Why would they deflect the question? A small part of me thinks that maybe HBO has a nudity quota and this was D&D’s way of filling that. Or maybe D&D felt, since they were on HBO, they needed to have a certain amount of nudity? In either case, I can see why they wouldn’t want to come out and say “The reason we had so many sex scenes was because HBO likes us to have X amount of sex/nudity per episode.” It would put HBO and them in a bad light.

    I mean D&D are smart guys and they don’t strike me as the type to completely disregard criticism, especially constructive criticism (of which there has been quite a bit with regards to the “sexposition” thing). So I think there is more to their humorous response than they just don’t “get it”…

  134. Josh Atreides
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    the goat,

    Agreed. A separate thread would be good for the Sady Doyle article.

  135. Winter Is Coming
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides, I’m not planning on making a post about the Sady Doyle article as it doesn’t pertain to the TV show.

    Also, it’s stupid.

  136. Cheri
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Yay!! Do I win a prize :)

  137. Tar Kidho
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: A small part of me thinks that maybe HBO has a nudity quota and this was D&D’s way of filling that.

    That would actually make a lot of sense… If true, and it is just a nudity quotum (although the added sexposition scenes speak against that), then I’d hope that the Qartheen fashion alone could fulfill it.

    Edit: just came to mind that Pycelle’s sexposition scene could well have been D&D’s wicked way of mocking HBO’s xxxuotum… :)

  138. Balerion
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    GOT 1 season. COK 1 season. SOW 2 seasons. FFC and DWD 2 or 3 seasons? WOW and DOS also 1 season? Eeeehhmmm that would mean (dream dream dream!!) at least 8 seasons. So GRRM has to make sure he finishes the series in 2018 or 2019.

    I says; HELL YEAH!!!!!!!

  139. Elena Amici
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: Also, it’s stupid.

    EPIC WIN

    Balerion:
    GOT 1 season. COK 1 season. SOW 2 seasons. FFC and DWD 2 or 3 seasons? WOW and DOS also 1 season?Eeeehhmmm that would mean (dream dream dream!!) at least 8 seasons. So GRRM has to make sure he finishes the series in 2018 or 2019.

    I says; HELL YEAH!!!!!!!

    mmm, i’d say:
    GOT 1 season, COK 1 season, STORM 2 season (with some parts from dance and feast), what is left of FEAST and DANCE 1 season, WINDS 1 season, DREAM 1 season.
    I mean, half of the new character in the last book WILL be cut. The other half is incredibly slow and difficult to film

    ETA: wic, i have a question about the shirt (yes, again!). How long do we have to order it before you guys start shipping it?

  140. the goat
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming:
    Josh Atreides, I’m not planning on making a post about the Sady Doyle article as it doesn’t pertain to the TV show.

    Also, it’s stupid.

    Thank you, ser.

    As far as the “sexposition” goes, I’m still amazed people have a problem with the authenticity of those scenes. Without Ros, we would’ve had:

    1. Tyrion, in his very first scene, wondering to himself where whores go?

    2. Theon yelling at a heart tree about the greatness of his family?

    3. Littlefinger divulging his love for Cat to a Gold Cloak rousting a drunk?

    4. Pycelle revealing his true form to a Pilates instructor?

    Why is it okay if Tyrion talks to a whore after getting blown, but its not okay if Theon talks to the same whore after he has sex with her? Or Pycelle? All three are depicted as whoremongers in the books. But if Robert and Cersei have an actual conversation that’s deemed one of the best scenes of the series. Talk about double standards.

  141. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Hahaha. No worries (from me, at least, who is someone commenting on the sexposition thing). I didn’t think it was connected. It is pretty awesome/hilarious though/. ;)

    Yes, D&D seem like smart guys, but I’m not sure that they can’t be both smart and unable see/understand the problem people have with the sexposition scenes. It can often be very difficult for someone to step outside of something they’re working on view it from a different perspective. I’m also sure they’re both very busy, and may not have had the opportunity to read some of the lengthier and more astute criticisms of that side of the show. Being smart also doesn’t stop one from being protective and defensive of the choices they’ve made/one’s project. In large part I was also talking about GRRM’s response to a similar question he was asked in a recent interview (not sure which one, but it was linked to on here at some point). He seemed to think people were criticizing the brutality of the sex, as well as the presence of sex at all, which is not the case (at least not for most of the people whose articles I’ve read).

    The quota thing, while possible, also seems a bit odd to me. While I can understand that HBO might encourage them to include some sex scenes, why don’t we have the same sort of thing in every HBO show? I’d be hard-pressed to think of many that don’t have any sex at all, but not all HBO shows are True Blood, or even Game of Thrones. I haven’t seen much of Boardwalk Empire, though I’ve heard it had a lot of seemingly pointless sex in it, and was criticized a little for that as well, so maybe it’s a recent thing, but I’m still unconvinced.
    I definitely expect there to be sex next season, and I hope there are some sex scenes where it is appropriate. I just don’t need another helping of Ros-pie, with Loz-pudding for afters. If this show did actually put MORE sex in than last season it would be nearing True Blood levels of ridiculousness, and I don’t think I could handle that, from the perspective of someone who actually thinks these books/this show should be/is more than fun campy times.
    Also, I may even have enjoyed Ros’s story if it wasn’t solely just her running around fucking random dudes/dudettes. I think having a “PoV” character who was prostitute could have been fascinating and could have really brought something new to the narrative without disrupting the atmosphere from the novels. Instead it’s like we’re meant to care about Ros and what happens to her, even though all we see is Ros the happy hooker (except when she has to do the nasty with old men, obvs :F ). When I look at how prostitution is addressed in a lot of other HBO shows, there’s no sugar-coating of the sex, but it’s also not glamorized in other ways, either, and the addition of Ros and similar sex scenes just makes GoT’s commentary on prostitution seem adolescent rather than engaging.
    And I’m sorry I started talking about Ros, etc, who has been discussed here so many times already, and who I am also not saying you have no argument with but that’s just where my train of thought went, haha. I’m pretty sure that if anyone remembers me at all amidst the hundreds of comments it is probably as someone who rambles on about nothing half the time (rather like Pycelle, come to think of it). XD

  142. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    the goat,

    I actually didn’t like the Tyrion/whores scenes. To me it seemed like one of the most forced of all Ros’s various appearances (and even moreso after all her pleased-as-punch northern whore friends dash inside the room for some Tyrion-loving). I preferred the Theon-Ros exchanges to most of her other scenes, since they didn’t feel as fake, and since there seemed to be more of a dynamic there that revealed something about both characters. The problem is, Ros doesn’t work as a character because she doesn’t exist outside of her role as a prostitute (and a happy prostitute at that). It was also the ridiculousness of the fact that she seemed to be known by all the main characters at Winterfell (even the ones she wasn’t banging!).
    And yes, I think some of the exposition would have been better for being revealed in another way. Why couldn’t we learn that Littlefinger loves Catelyn, for instance, from another character or during one of Littlefinger and Varys’s exchanges (assuming he knows). I’m even pretty sure someone else DOES mention it at some point. Littlefinger could even have still had his monologue and been speaking aloud to himself while holding some cherished memento or childhood object or staring at himself in the mirror or any number of things.
    I don’t even think all the sexposition scenes need to be removed or changed. I think one or two could have been effective, but just that the number of them started to weigh the show down a little and that if they included MORE next season than they did last season, that it could start weighing the show down a lot, rather than a little.

  143. the goat
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Also, the LF “sexposition” scene was a complete deconstruction of the previous Ros scenes. Sex is the driving force of this series, insomuch as power is a means to determine: a) continued life, and b) continued sexual activity/particular partners. The LF brothel scene, then, depicts sex as purely a means, as opposed to an end.

    Certainly there was “sexposition,” since LF spills his guts about Cat while Ros and the other whore are “going through the motions.” But the entire theme was different than the other Ros scenes; no one was actually receiving pleasure. Sex as work vs. sex as an end.

  144. Kate
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    What a great interview!

    Can’t thank these two enough for the phenomenal work they’re doing, and the passion they put into the show from casting to editing and everything in between. May you rock the Emmys and take home all the awards you’re nominated for! Seven hells yeah. And thanks, Winter Is Coming, for keeping us all updated.

  145. the goat
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    Well, I think its pretty obvious to both of us that HBO wanted as much sex as possible. Still, I thought the Tyrion scene was absolutely in character, I had no problem with the Theon scene (although the turnip cart scene could’ve been shortened), and the Pycelle scene was also character/plot driven. (I just talked about the LF scene above).

  146. Chris77
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Concerning Ros…
    I have no problem with Ros the happy whore. In medival times, before the arrival of Syphillis, whoring was a well paid profession and certain whores were treated by the nobility like other nobles, kind of like in Firefly;). In GoT this seems to be the case as well, with whores like Chataya , opposed to camp followers.

  147. Whiteotter
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    purplejilly,
    I agree, their response was a deflection at best, and a dismissal at worse (“…there (are) those who want to see sex in big tubs of pudding. You just can’t please everyone. This year, we’re going to focus on the pudding people”). What?

    I love that they’re such avid fans, and I appreciate the great they’ve done with the show. But in this regard I find their response unfortunate, because the question was valid.

  148. Eleanor
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Syphilis is far older than medieval times.

    Also, I love ‘Purple W’ as a handy abbreviation. I’ve thought for ages that’s where they should end S3 – hope they do!

  149. loco73
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Awesome! Man I cannot wait until the new season starts….F**k yeah!
    Hodor!

  150. Angela Bomar
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Abyss,

    Thanks, I will be moving to Germany in September:) We will see how they will do with the translating lol.

  151. mummer
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Eleanor,
    Syphilis probably did not exist in Europe before the 15th century, although there’s still some dispute about it. But that’s not to say that Chris77 has a point; I think he has badly misunderstood the history of courtesans.

  152. purplejilly
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: A small part of me thinks that maybe HBO has a nudity quota and this was D&D’s way of filling that.

    I’ve started watching True Blood’s older seasons on Netflix, and listening to the commentaries, and on some of them the writers joke about how they look for every opportunity to have a character take their shirt off. So I think maybe there is a ‘thing’ going on at HBO, almost like a source of pride thing, that says “We’re HBO, we can say the F word, and show all nudity we want, so make sure you get it in each episode! Don’t let people forget we are HBO and we can push those boundaries!”

    And maybe it’s not a “mandated” amount (allthough you know almost all rumors start with a bit of truth!) but I wouldn’t be putting it past the execs or whoever to keep encouraging the writers and directors to get more nudity, curse words, or graphic scenes in. They CAN do it, so they want to make sure they DO do it, all the time.

    Which is a shame, because I don’t think Game of Thrones needs that ‘do it because we can’ mentality. It’s got a great enough story, and strong plotlines and dialogue that it doesn’t need to have the sex and nudity thrown in ‘just because they can’.

  153. Winter Is Coming
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Elena Amici: ETA: wic, i have a question about the shirt (yes, again!). How long do we have to order it before you guys start shipping it?

    Not sure what you mean? We’re taking pre-orders now so we have an idea of how many shirts we should print for our initial run. Pre-ordering will ensure that you are one of the first to receive one and give you a chance at winning one of the keychains. The shirts will ship out in late Sept.

  154. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    Chris77,

    I think that’s a bit of a sweeping generalization, and it also assumes that we have documentation that supports the attitudes and general happiness of rather a large group of women. That’s not to say that I don’t agree that there weren’t high-end prostitutes or women who chose their work, but even with regard to women who counted themselves amongst either or both groups there were certainly abuses, etc. This, to me, seems rather akin to the kind of fantasy prostitute that the show itself promotes (for lack of a better word). Regardless of the presence of syphillis in Western Europe, there were also other STIs, and while that is certainly one problem affecting prostitutes and their clients, it is not the only problem that exists with prostitution.

    the goat,

    I think the Tyrion scene was in character as well, I just don’t think it came off well, if that makes sense. I can certainly believe a prostitute feigning happiness for a rich lord, but the horde of giggling whores was a bit much. I definitely like having a humourous introduction to the character, but I found it a bit too unrealistic and it made me cringe a little rather than laugh.
    I could buy your argument about the LF/whores scenes, but if that was what they were going for I just don’t think they achieved the effect they were going for. You still have this situation where, even if the prostitutes themselves aren’t supposed to be enjoying the sex, it seems like the audience are, or at least, it’s written/cast with the audience and their attraction to the prostitutes in mind. None of the whores in GoT are ever ugly, for instance, or seem to get/look sick or tired. The impression we get of Ros’s difficulties are limited to: “Oh god, not again, I hate fucking old men,” and “ugh, it’s been a long day at the office, I just want to go home.” If they really wanted to deconstruct the way sex is portrayed in the show there are a million other ways they could have gone about it that would have been more hard-hitting and less voyeuristic.

  155. kg1982
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    I’m excited about the next season. It seems like Dillane was a ridiculously good choice as Stannis, which I think was probably the hardest part to cast. It also is a good sign that Allen and Whelan are working well in their roles. Theon has such a huge arc in ADWD, so if they get to a fourth/ fifth season, I really hope that Allen can do it justice. However, that arc is probably a dream part for an actor.

    As for SOS, I’m assuming that it is going to be a season and half.. ending with the RW and Joffrey’s wedding as an I’m sorry for the RW.

  156. the goat
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    Thanks for the reply, but I should start by sayin that we’re probably looking way to into this already. Also, I never will (and I don’t think I ever have) argue against the idea that a significant amount of the motivation for D&D’s creation of Ros was prurient. She’s beautiful, a competent actress, and she doesn’t mind working naked. I’m simply arguing that the scenes were not completely superficial, when they certainly could’ve been, especially given the budget. Sort of a “two birds” argument, if you will.

    As far as giggling whores, Jaime & Tyrion are rich, and nothing makes whores giggle like a jangling purse. “You’re not fooling them. They just paid you. They know what you are. They know its all just an act. Your job is to make them forget what they know.”

    And of course I agree that they “should” depict a prostitute’s life in greater detail, but once again its a simple matter of time. There’s just too much story to tell. Still, I don’t think many people walk away after watching the show saying, “Wow! I wish I could be a whore in Westeros! It seems so glamorous!” Especially after the LF & Pycelle scenes. “Now wash yourselves, both of you are working tonight.”

  157. Epic Awesomesauce
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    I really like what you are saying.

    I am not able to discuss my opinions with people like Chris and Goat without at some point exploding with incredulity (or more likely, making a cryptic remark dripping with irony and taking exit stage left). These discussions I avoid and as a result I have a generally strong negative opinion of the show and the fans tucked beneath my own thin candy coated enjoyment of the books and the show. So when I see your posts today that have a certain level of clarity and free of anger, irony, and sarcasm, that is a rare thing; it is really something special to appreciate. Sady’s rant doesn’t have that clarity of course; its more of a visceral and comic incredulity which I totally resonate with.

    The GRRM series of books or tv if dissected with a the sexist question has a very poor chance of being recognized as anything other. Persons should appear humorless to deny or to justify the sexism and racism that surrounds them every day and most likely crystallizes on a fantasy novel or show on TV-MA closed circuit network tv show. Without humor = nerd, to me–that is when someone over-analyzes something and doesn’t see the big picture.

    What makes the first three books great is that GRRM is not looking at his text and thinking “is this fair, is this sophisticated”? No, it’s got its own chemistry. It’s racist, sexist, violent, disgusting, and full of horror. If he did make it fair and sophisticated, would anyone outside the usual fantasy nerdbase read it? If Mel Brooks were in his prime we’d be now looking at views for Thongs of Fire and Ice calling out all this sexist and racist material. And it would be funny.

    I like to see D&D are not making excuses in this interview for once. I think they deserve it.

  158. Hi-Fi
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    It may be an unpopular opinion, but I thought Ros was fun (and the actress had great screen presence, more than the one portraying Shae) and would be really scratching my head if they just drop her from the show. I hope for at least one Ros appearance next season, hopefully out of bed so that her character can develep a little bit.

  159. the goat
    Posted August 31, 2011 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Epic Awesomesauce,

    “Qualifications?”

    “Rape, murder, arson, and rape.”

    “You said rape twice?”

    “I like rape.”

    Here’s to exploding with incredulity.

  160. Sid
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 3:10 am | Permalink

    Epic Awesomesauce:
    Steve Hugh Westenra,
    A Thong of Ice and Fire?

    ROFLMFAO!
    Thanks! I will be several years older because of that.

  161. Chris77
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 3:41 am | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra: Posted August 31, 2011 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    Chris77,

    I think that’s a bit of a sweeping generalization, and it also assumes that we have documentation that supports the attitudes and general happiness of rather a large group of women. That’s not to say that I don’t agree that there weren’t high-end prostitutes or women who chose their work, but even with regard to women who counted themselves amongst either or both groups there were certainly abuses, etc. This, to me, seems rather akin to the kind of fantasy prostitute that the show itself promotes (for lack of a better word). Regardless of the presence of syphillis in Western Europe, there were also other STIs, and while that is certainly one problem affecting prostitutes and their clients, it is not the only problem that exists with prostitution.

    Hey, I did not want to generalise anything, I just wanted to make clear that there was (and probably still is) a MINORITY of prostitutes that is very high profile and probably earns more money than all of us. Syphillis originated in America and was unknown in Europe before 1492. Of course there were other STDs, but none were that deadly and disfiguring than Syph. On the heels of Syphillis followed the first demonisation of “free love”, mainly by the Catholic Church. You can compare it to the changes in the perception of sex in the 70s and in the late 80s post HIV, only 100 times worse (because back then, you not only died, but went straight to hell).

    Ros is IMO a High Profile whore in a STD free Westeros who was well known to the Lordlings of the North (Jon, Theon…) who followed the call of the coin to the Capital (after pleasing Tyrion and probably other southern lords).

  162. julandro
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    It is unfortunate that “Game of Thrones” is the first HBO series to be criticized for its nudity and sex scenes. I am amazed to see how people talk much about it. In Rome, no one said anything when Atia was shown naked in a bathtub. However, the nakedness of Daenerys in the first episode was criticized.

    I sure do not show the sex scenes, it would be criticized by the same people. I am among those who think that the series does not show much sex, but lacks daring. I think D & D are intelligent and expected a negative reaction, so we see that the sex scenes are filmed very timidly. Suddenly, I read people saying that the scenes that have shown they are forced. Noooooooooo!!!

    People get confused with Spartacus. It is necessary that the series show the sex scenes. It makes the story more believable as the life of the Middle Ages.

  163. Chris77
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    julandro: People get confused with Spartacus. It is necessary that the series show the sex scenes. It makes the story more believable as the life of the Middle Ages.

    Hey Paco,

    What would Spartacus be without the nudity/sex?
    I think the main problem many have with the sex scenes is that they are nearly always exposition scenes as well, though in the books the same is often true as well (Jaime/Cersei, Tyrion/Shae, Cersei/Taena). What this series lachs are some sex scenes without exposition (like the last Dany/Drogo one in S1) no one complains about that scene…

  164. sid
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    Not to be nitpicking…well actually yes, but isn’t Spartacus set in Rome or Ancient Greece? That’s like a 1000 years before the Middle Ages. Anywho, Dany is described as naked (at least topless) in that scene in the book. So I don’t see it as much of a deviation. Besides, Emilia is freaking gorgeous, so the complainers can screw themselves. I’ll take Emilia…;)

  165. Matthias Hinkelmann
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Okay, like most people said: I guess they would show E9 S3 – RW and later maybe something positiv.

    I have one concern that in my mind would drive a lot of viewers away. Uncat. Most people hate that part in the book too, because she isn’t the only one. If you show something like that at a end of an season it would drive people away. if you show it at the start of a season it might do the same.
    This part is important for the whole books and tv serie, but it could damage alot. I hope that D&D will find a way to explain somehow that this bringing back to life is something that can happen just sometimes, for a great price. Otherwise people might get driven away from the show. Like i think it will happen with true blood.

  166. Josh Atreides
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    Esme Bianco seems like a decent actress and as much as like any guy I admire her form, I would like to see obvious thespian talent put to good use. Roz should be a Trixie or a Joanie Stubbs instead of “the Happy Hooker”. And a Chataya should be cast to support her character in the brothel scenes.

    If anything they should at least expand Roz’s role as a spy for Littlefinger. Just give her more than just-ladies on this board please excuse the term-”T and A” scenes.

  167. purplejilly
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    julandro,
    Maybe it’s because we generally think of the middle ages as a more ‘demure’ period. Rome was known as decadent and lasvicious. On a show about Rome, I’d expect nudity.

    On a show about the middle ages, they didn’t even like to show wrist or ankle skin action, so I would expect the sex and nudity to be more in line with the thinking of the time.

  168. OhDanyBoy
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Matthias Hinkelmann,

    I think Dondarrion’s story line explains nicely how it is done and what the cost is very nicely – and we will see that story in the third season.

  169. OhDanyBoy
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    http://www.brandonsun.com/entertainment/breaking-news/call-me-fitz-racks-up-leading-six-wins-in-advance-of-gemini-awards-128857333.html?thx=y

    Seems Jeremy Podeswa (a director for the Borgias, as well as an HBO mainstay – True Blood, Boardwalk, The Pacific, Rome, Nip/Tuck – and other stuff like Camelot and The Tudors) is going to be directing at least one episode of GoT this season.

  170. OhDanyBoy
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    He’s also done Carnivale, Six Feet Under, Queer as Folk, and the L Word, as well as an episode of Dexter.

    Oh, and he’s Canadian, so, yay!

  171. Josh Atreides
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Matthias Hinkelmann,

    Regarding Uncat, Post ADWD: I believe the culmination of her character arc-from hating Jon Snow at the beginning to her present state-will be through some last vestige of humanity that will allow her to pass her life-force ala Beric Dondarrion to the dying/dead Jon Snow. My personal prediction maybe but I think as a whole it is possible. Especially if she realizes that he is the only one that can save her children whom according to my theory, she will soon learn are still alive. Maybe there is a connection between Thoros of Myr and Melisandre that will bring the two groups together.

    A crackpot theory? Who knows.

  172. Josh Atreides
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy,

    Yay Canuck pride! Though I would prefer a Newfie. Gordon Pinsent as Hoster Tully!

  173. Winter Is Coming
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy, nice find!

  174. Ed
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    LOL!!!!

    the goat:
    Epic Awesomesauce,

    “Qualifications?”

    “Rape, murder, arson, and rape.”

    “You said rape twice?”

    “I like rape.”

    Here’s to exploding with incredulity.

  175. Sid
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Ed,

    Isn’t that from Blazing Saddles? (Awesome movie)

    Edit: Had to check, and it is. I’m such a film-nerd. *face-palms myself*

  176. SugarVampire
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Matthias Hinkelmann,

    The quick and easy end for season 3 after RW in episode 9 is to show Ayra and the Hound in the Crossroad Inn killing tickler and Cat became unCat. Not as satifying as Joffrey’s wedding but that story line is long and could be better used in Season 4. The alternate could be Sam rescued by coldhand and Jon’s escape in the Gift with the help of Summer

    The toughest part of splitting ASoS into season 3 and 4 is what to do with Dany. Season 3 – journey to slavor bay, Asatapor; season 4 – Yunkai and Maureen?

  177. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    the goat,

    I agree with you as far as taking their intentions seriously goes, haha. There’s probably not as much to it as all that, but essentially that’s also a part of my point.

    And no, I don’t think men and women will go away from the show thinking, “man, I wish I was a prostitute!” but I do think that a lot of men and women who are attracted to women will go away from the show thinking, “man, I can’t wait to see more tits and ass on GoT next week,” which is a little sad in my opinion.

    Don’t worry, I definitely wouldn’t assume your view to be limited or one-note or anything. I think you’re making a lot of excellent points. I’m also sure a lot of this has been gone over already while the show was actually airing, it’s just that I never really read/commented on those posts so I don’t know exactly what has already been said, etc. For all that I love discussing the show, I think I enjoyed watching it with my father and not talking about it online while it was actually going on, I suppose.

    Epic Awesomesauce,

    Thanks! I’m glad you enjoyed my comment, ahaha. I don’t think The Goat is dismissing any of that though. In many ways I think he was arguing from much the same place I was but we were discussing the intentions of D&D rather than whether or not said portrayal came off as sexist.
    I definitely think you’re right that just because something is difficult to talk about, or may reflect negatively on something we all love doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk about it (that would be burying our heads in the sand, after all). I also don’t think that it means D&D are awful people for NOT necessarily noticing it. I’m a writer myself, and I know how easy it can be to not realize something uncomfortable about your own work, or an overall impression that your work could give to an audience that you didn’t intend that way, etc.

    Chris77,

    I hope I didn’t come off as attacking you! I certainly didn’t mean to. Again though, I think the image of any of these periods and this “free love”, everything was wonderful until the big bad church (or other authority) jumped in, view is a highly idealized one. That’s not to say that the power and purported values of the church had no effect on existing institutions, but rather, that the reality was likely far more complicated than being universally abuse or universally safe and pleasant (the same goes for attitudes about free love during the twentieth century).

    julandro,

    I’m not arguing that there shouldn’t be any nudity or sex at all (and I thought the nude Dany scene at the beginning was beautifully shot and powerful in a number of ways). In fact, I’m more on the side of that article that thought the show made a bad choice through NOT showing more of the violent, cruel sex of the books (>MMD’s rape<) and instead focusing on titillation, etc.
    Also, I don't think the Middle Ages were necessarily any more OR less sexual than any other time period. Certainly, attitudes toward sex would have varied over time and geographical/cultural region, but sex is sex and people have it and have always had it. The same is true of going to the bathroom or eating awesome food (or bad food) and loving and hating, etc. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be an excess of any of those things in a show or other medium. I like that the show doesn't shy away from showing sex and I'm glad they are able to do so, I just think it could have been handled better. In the past I've always appreciated that HBO is able to address its subject matter intelligently, but throwing in random titty shots because they can doesn't strike me as intelligent so much as it does as something network shows WOULD do if they could, and to me HBO has always been about being higher quality than those networks. I think shows like True Blood can get away with having more raunchy sex because that's essentially what the show is– it's campy and it's fun and it pokes fun at itself. At the same time, I do still like a bit of story with my camp, and I think True Blood is going overboard with it a little. My worry with GoT is that if they include more of the kind of thing they did last season that it will become campy and cheesy, which is NOT the kind of show/book I think ASoIaF is.

    Josh Atreides,

    YES. This is precisely what I was getting at. Though there is a lot of sex and nudity in Deadwood (more than in GoT), we get a definite sense that the work these women do affects them. The actresses are more than eye-candy for the viewer, but are actually characters in their own right, with storylines and problems and personality.
    Like The Goat said, it is hard to see where D&D could fit something like that into a show already packed full of characters, but as far as I’m concerned then they should have left it alone entirely. If you don’t have time to devote to addressing a subject/storyline properly (especially an added one not from the books), then why do it at all? It wouldn’t have been an issue, I think, to have prostitutes where they needed to be, but to make out that Ros has any kind of a story arc in the first season, when her arc essentially just jumps from one Joe to the next in order to let us see her naked…it comes off as trashy.

    Josh Atreides,

    OMG! Are you a Newfie???? I thought I was the only one on here. THE INSANITY. I’m actually from England originally, but I grew up here and recently moved back from Ontario. BWB meet in NL? Yes plz.

  178. julandro
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    The world created by George RR Martin is cruel and violent. The medieval period had much sex and violence. The problem is that people are accustomed to watching movies containing soft. An example: We have the typical stories of princes and princesses.

    First you must understand one thing. I think some are people who do not understand.
    The formula, George RR Martin + HBO is synonymous with violence and sexuality.

    It is absurd to criticize a TV channel with a long record of series with strong sexual content.

    Third. The focus of the bad reviews are mostly American viewers only know to criticize criticize
    (It scandalized by anything because they feel uncomfortable seeing a sex scene together with her ​​beloved parents) Another large percentage are a few simple Puritans who do not want to see a gay blowjob.

    When it showed the gay scene, people do not understand, but when it showed a scene of lesbian, people said it was too long. Do you see the differences?

  179. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    julandro,

    I don’t think that’s what any of us are arguing against though! At least when I think back on sex in HBO shows I always thought the bluntness and honesty of it was masterfully handled. It doesn’t get mentioned a lot on here, but Oz, for instance, was a great show that really got across the brutality and the romance of both sex and violence and without coming off as cheesy.

    I’m also someone who argued FOR the inclusion of a gay sex scene between Renly and Loras, as I thought the potential tenderness of it would be a strong thematic off-set for all the upsetting, messed up sex in the series.

    Also, sorry to argue for you, Purplegilly, I just figured you were discussing along the same lines I was and kind of jumped in. D:

  180. Sid
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    julandro,

    Slurp slurp slurp! :D

    No, I actually agree here. GoT (the book) has a lot of sex scenes (written and implied) in it. Just show those when necessary. Like Renly and Loras. That was necessary shorthand to establish their relationship long before season 2 storyline begins. The dreaded FingerFest had absolutely no support in the books and was totally pointless except as background for LFs exposition. That’s why people complain about that one. Throw in a “Drunken-Robert-molesting-Cersei” sex scene instead to show why she hates him instead and let LF do exposition in the mirror.

  181. Josh Atreides
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    Yesss my son! My mother is from Corner Brook and my Dad is from St. John’s. I was born in CB, moved to Mount Pearl and moved to the mainland afterwards. I live in Ottawa presently. My saturation in all things Ontarian for the past 20 years has destroyed my accent completely!

  182. Josh Atreides
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Sid,

    I am curious if Lena no longer having a bun in the oven will free her up in the next season. I expect to see a change in Cersei’s wardrobe as well. I have a feeling-nay-hope that Lena is going to unleash the crazy this season. We are going to see a stronger portrayal this season especially when she is up against Peter Dinklage.

  183. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides,

    Ahaha, that’s so awesome! I grew up in CBS (Topsail), which is where I currently live. I never had much of an accent, as my family and I were always loners and they didn’t have Newfoundland accents. Sometimes people on the mainland can tell though.
    I actually get asked a lot if I’m from New Zealand, which is pretty odd. o.0

  184. Sid
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides,

    I really hope so, we need to see her gradually turn into the paranoid power-crazed maniac that she truly is. Unleash the EVILLLL! MOAHAHAHAHA!

  185. Shinyteapot
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra:

    I’m also someone who argued FOR the inclusion of a gay sex scene between Renly and Loras, as I thought the potential tenderness of it would be a strong thematic off-set for all the upsetting, messed up sex in the series.

    Renly and Loras have one of the better relationships of all those we encounter in the books- they’re genuinely in love, and from the things Loras says, he really thinks the world of Renly. Sadly, I don’t think that came across very well in their scene together in the show (BJ noises really didn’t help!)- maybe it will in series 2. They seemed very comfortable together, but I didn’t see as much emotion as I’d have liked. I think it would help if we saw them kiss.

  186. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides,

    This is something I am very much looking forward to! I think there are going to be some great moments between these two (and Charles Dance). More Emmy noms, anyone?

  187. Steve Hugh Westenra
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Shinyteapot,

    I’m really on the fence about how the actual scene played out, because on the one hand I thought both actors were phenomenal in their roles, but on the other I can see where people are coming from when they talk about how different the characters were. I do think Loras came off more as a schemer than an idealist (not because of Finn, but because of the writing). I think they can easily rectify that in season 2, however.

  188. Josh Atreides
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    Yeah Joanie Stubbs was awesome. I am now pissed off thinking of how Deadwood was cancelled. We need Kim Dickens or Paula Malcolmson on GOT! Lady Barbrey maybe?

    And yes the triumvirate of Dance, Headey and Dinklage will be amazing to see. Also, yes he does not physically match book Tywin, but Charles Dance is incredible. Ever since I saw Bleak House I prayed that he would play Tywin even after watching Alan Dale on Lost. Charles Dance effortlessly channels the character’s arrogance, cunning and cruelty. He makes me both hate and respect Tywin: “Green boy!” F’ing love him.

  189. Shinyteapot
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra,

    I really didn’t like Renly being wimy and scared of blood. They should both be used to hunting and jousting and all the cuts and scrapes that come with it, even if they’ve not fought real battles. But it’s their relationship that didn’t quite come over to me- you could see they were sleeping together, but not necessarily the strength of their feelings for each other.

  190. purplejilly
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Steve Hugh Westenra: I don’t think that’s what any of us are arguing against though! At least when I think back on sex in HBO shows I always thought the bluntness and honesty of it was masterfully handled. It doesn’t get mentioned a lot on here, but Oz, for instance, was a great show that really got across the brutality and the romance of both sex and violence and without coming off as cheesy.
    I’m also someone who argued FOR the inclusion of a gay sex scene between Renly and Loras, as I thought the potential tenderness of it would be a strong thematic off-set for all the upsetting, messed up sex in the series.
    Also, sorry to argue for you, Purplegilly, I just figured you were discussing along the same lines I was and kind of jumped in. D:

    No problem Steve, you are right in line with what I am thinking, anyway. I too, was very interested in seeing some romance and tenderness in the Renly/Loras scenes.

    And yes, julandro, I realize that HBO and GRRM would probably be a given to have lots of violence and sex – I’m just saying I don’t like it. I don’t expect they’ll change, and apparently we are going to get more and stickier (pudding) sex next season, it just makes me sad if we are going to see sex and nudity and weird stuff ‘just because they CAN do it’, instead of sex and nudity and weird stuff that fits the scenes, and is done tastefully and to enhance the story.

  191. purplejilly
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    Shinyteapot: But it’s their relationship that didn’t quite come over to me- you could see they were sleeping together, but not necessarily the strength of their feelings for each other.

    Also what bothered me is that it looked like Loras was manipulating Renly, and perhaps using him, and not necessarily ‘in love’ with him.

  192. userj
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    SugarVampire,
    spoilers incl for adwd:

    I would suggest to do the entirity of her Book 3 arc in Season 3, and then do the first half of aDwD (up to Drogon Flight – last scene of the season, IMO) for Season 4. She only has 6 book 3 chapters and probably 1 of them will be in season 2.

    Of course… this is problematic because we’d have to get Tyrion all the way to Meereen in season 4 as well, so he can be present for Dany’s flight. Which means you’d have to have him shoot Tywin early in Season 4 so he can be on his way. And Tywin’s death affects so much else. But I guess we can just cut half of the stupid wanderings of Tyrion that occur in Book 5. No turtles! lol.


    But… it would be awful to stop anywhere in the Dany arc prior to the pits because the whole thing is just so frustrating and uneventful.

  193. julandro
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    I always thought that eroticism and sexuality, is cinematically beautiful. The truth is I can not understand why a person does not like sex in a scene.

    Do you like the violent scenes?

    Everyone to his own taste

  194. julandro
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Indeed. I think the second season, I hope I’m wrong, will not show more sex.

    I just hope that dare to show Lancel and Cersie in a scene of sex. hehehehehe …. sorry.

  195. Shadowcat85
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Question for WiC- has Esme been spotted on set yet?

  196. Blackfish Blues
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    julandro:
    Do you like the violent scenes?

    No.

  197. LMMacN
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    As I said in the Is the Trout Out? thread, if there gonna go all the way, they need the Reeds. All three of them. For Bran’s personal evolution and for Ned’s history with Howland that answers one of the Big Questions.

  198. Epic Awesomesauce
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    Shadowcat85:
    Question for WiC- has Esme been spotted on set yet?

    Apparently, no one recognizes her when she is dressed. Clothed, she is a chameleon. She could be inside your bedroom, you would not know.

  199. Emma
    Posted September 1, 2011 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    HELL YEAH!

  200. Sid
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 3:16 am | Permalink

    Epic Awesomesauce: Apparently, no one recognizes her when she is dressed. Clothed, she is a chameleon. She could be inside your bedroom, you would not know.

    Oh, I’d think I’d know… :)
    As I see it, the smartest way to keep Ros/Esme is to replace Alayaya with her. All Tyrions “business” with her can be achieved in the same way, with the obvious twist that LF knows what is going on…

  201. julandro
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    Blackfish Blues,

    Then .. Why are you watching the series “A Game of Thrones”?

  202. Blackfish Blues
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    julandro,
    because for me it has nothing to do with sex and violence and everything to do with a good story about human nature – if well done.

  203. julandro
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Blackfish Blues,

    Sorry, but you’re wrong. “Game of Thrones” is a story about human violence, political intrigue and sexuality. It is true that this very well told and the characters have much depth, but first you must understand that it is bloody and violent. ok?

  204. Blackfish Blues
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    julandro,
    No.

  205. purplejilly
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    julandro: I always thought that eroticism and sexuality, is cinematically beautiful. The truth is I can not understand why a person does not like sex in a scene.
    Do you like the violent scenes?
    Everyone to his own taste

    I hate violent scenes. I close my eyes when they come on in GoT or elsewhere, and my husband tells me when it’s okay to look again.

    On eroticism and sexuality, I also think that is beautiful, and can be cinematically beautiful – I have no problem with nudity, sex and seeing it in a show, if it’s done tastefully, and enhances the story. My complaint with GoT is that the sex was sloppy, crude, and done in a ham-fisted way, like cheap porn. It seems like it was filling a nudity quota, and not natural. I blame a combination of the writers, the directors, and whoever else stages/influences how a scene goes.
    Perhaps they meant for the sex to be sloppy, crude, with slurp slurp sounds and gaggles of giggling whores, along with Roz the outspoken and ubiquitious whore. To me, it just cheapened the story.

    Several posters in the past had written ‘what if’ posts, like ways the Loras and Renly scene could have been done, and how it could have been more erotic, intimate and beautiful. I liked every one of their suggestions, other than what appeared on-screen.

  206. Maxwell James
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    With just a few exceptions, I found most of the sex scenes in the first season to be eye-rollingly cheesy, and along with the Dothraki frat party, er wedding scene easily the worst part of the show. I mean, what is King Robert going to do with 5-6 prostitutes at once? At any one time, at least half are just going to be waiting around.

    As over the top as it was, the LF scene was at least humorously outrageous, complete as it was with loud screaming, crass non-sequiturs, and a mustachio-twirling villainous monologue. I hated it at the time, but in retrospect it was actually kind of innovative.

  207. julandro
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I think the way is debatable. I have no complaint.

    How should they show the sex scenes? It is obvious that the creators are sending a message as saying that working for HBO. Why should it look that way, negatively?

    It is true that you can improve things, but even so, I think people will still criticize the sex scenes.

  208. Kings Landing Butler
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Eleanor: Syphilis is far older than medieval times.

    I hate to nit-pick here, but while Syphilis is indeed older than medieval times, it was unknown to Europe until the end of the 15th century. Before that, it existed only in the Americas. Most people think that Syphilis was first introduced to Europe by Columbus’ original expedition to the New World, way back in 1492.

    On topic: What event(s) do you think D&D will end Season 2 with? I think I remember reading that episode 9 will be the Battle of the Blackwater, but I’m honestly blanking on what happens immediately after. So what would be the season’s big finale, its ‘dragon moment’ (to quote one of the above posters)?

  209. Jam
    Posted September 2, 2011 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Kings Landing Butler: I hate to nit-pick here, but while Syphilis is indeed older than medieval times, it was unknown to Europe until the end of the 15th century. Before that, it existed only in the Americas. Most people think that Syphilis was first introduced to Europe by Columbus’ original expedition to the New World, way back in 1492.

    On topic: What event(s) do you think D&D will end Season 2 with? I think I remember reading that episode 9 will be the Battle of the Blackwater, but I’m honestly blanking on what happens immediately after. So what would be the season’s big finale, its ‘dragon moment’ (to quote one of the above posters)?

    Maybe they will end season two with SoS prologue? I for one think that would be brilliant.

  210. Brandy Wine
    Posted September 3, 2011 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    One more…Hell Yeah!

  1. [...] Re: Adwd First reactions (spoilers inside) Just read on Winter is Coming that the two Davids, who produce Game of Thrones, have said (presuming they're green-lighted for Season 3), that Storm of Swords will NOT be a single season. Read the article here: http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/08/…wo-and-beyond/ [...]

  2. [...] both seasons three and four and film them back-to-back (à la Lord of the Rings). It has already been confirmed that A Storm of Swords would be covered in more than one season, with most speculating that it will [...]

  3. [...] both seasons three and four and film them back-to-back (à la Lord of the Rings). It has already been confirmed that A Storm of Swordswould be covered in more than one season. From what we have heard, much of [...]

  4. [...] popular A Song of Ice and Fire series, TV show creators David Benioff and D.B. Weisshave already said that the third book, A Storm of Swords, “will not be a single season. Therefore, if the show [...]

  5. [...] popular A Song of Ice and Fire series, TV show creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have already said that the third book, A Storm of Swords, “will not be a single season. Therefore, if the show [...]

  6. [...] Benioff has confirmed, in an interview with Winter-is-Coming, that if HBO renews Game of Thrones for a third season that, A Storm of Swords will not be one [...]

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