All may not be sunshine and rainbows on the Game of Thrones front. Commenter Michael has remarked that he has a source that is stating that HBO’s reaction to the pilot screening was “not positive” and that they are “back editing, trying to make it work.” He later goes on to say:
I should probably elaborate since I’m sure I’ll be attacked, but HBO just wasn’t as positive as they thought they would be. That doesn’t mean it won’t receive the light, but the show is so expensive that it just doesn’t bode well. I am told that Sean Bean is terrific, though.
Adam Whitehead of The Wertzone adds some conflicting info from his own sources:
Consulting my own sources suggests that whilst Michael’s comments that the pilot may not be 100% perfect (and no pilot ever is) and some elements may need further work might be correct – I’d be surprised if this was not the case – the overall vibe and enthusiasm for the project remains quite high at HBO.
Winter Is Coming: My feeling is that the original comments from Michael are reflective of, like Adam says, the normal pilot process being played out. Of course, HBO is likely to want some tweaking here and there. But based on everything else we have heard, HBO still seems excited about the project. Either way, this rumor is a good reminder that a green light is still not 100% guaranteed.
You guys and your dirty thoughts 
))) I even do...
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146 Comments
when I read that title I felt a little sick, haha. I hope whatever HBO isn't happy with they're able to easily change… @sallyarmstrongQuote Reply
I wonder what their reaction to the initial True Blood pilot was….that was not the best pilot in the world… phunkysaiQuote Reply
"Everything looks fantastic," said Lombardo, who's become a fan of the George R.R. Martin books upon which the project is based. "The director got great performances. Unlike a lot of projects like this, everything was shot on location. It has such a rich texture that it looks more expensive than it actually was."
… this was a little over a month ago…everyone take a collective deep breath it will be o.k. dizzy34Quote Reply
I think my heart skipped a beat when i read your tweet…but the rest of the post calmed me down
PaulQuote Reply
I think I may I have caused a riot.
Hello, though. I'm open to any questions I can answer. Michael SourcenatorQuote Reply
this post made a small part of me die inside
RerQuote Reply
Maybe the special effects are not finished yet. Or the editing need cuts or re-shot. We don't know which subject the producers found negative. However I think it is about a technical question and not about the atmosphere, the scenario, the directing or the actor's play, according to Lombardo. ErikQuote Reply
Man, I got the tweet and I was like whaaaaaaaat. I'm feeling a bit better now, though.
DavidioQuote Reply
Hey, Michael, I have some questions though I have no idea what you'd feel comfortable answering. Does HBO feel that the exec producers/showrunners are good, decent, getting their feet wet, incompetent. Do they think there's a problem with the narrative flow, and is the show just too confusing (I assume at least somebody who hasn't read the books has watched it). I've wondered about whether the books will fall very naturally into episode form; also whether or not the show will feel rushed, as all dramatic moments are kept in and slower parts of the book are cut (or just don't realy adapt well, like internal monologue). Is there any feel of a particular actor or role just not working? Not necessarily needing a new actor, but just to reshoot the scenes with a different approach? These are the kinds of questions that have sprung to mind, but I will understand if they are beyond what you have knowledge about to answer, or if answering would require too much specific info. JackSparrowQuote Reply
Michael: In an earlier comment, you said that HBO simply "did not like it".
Thats pretty "extreme", so to speak. You haven't really told us why, as far as i'm concerned. The fact that they are worried about cost and sprawling cast does not translate into "didn't like it". Because they knew about the cost and sprawling cast already. And that could not have been the new big issues when they saw and then decided they didn't like the pilot.
So what were you talking about? sjweningsQuote Reply
As for his claim, it's plausible but it's at odds with everything we've been hearing from ACTUAL sources. The burden of proof is on him. Winter, can you please vet him for us? @wabawangaQuote Reply
If there is any truth to this rumor, I think it can be chalked up to HBO drinking the same Kool Aid that we have been for the past 6 months. When every comment by every actor, director, crew member, set visitor, production designer, etc, has been positive, it's easy to assume the only people that matter (HBO execs) will start getting as excited as we are. Perhaps they suffered from unrealistic expectations regarding what the finished product would be. I agree with some earlier comments to think it is unrealistic to think HBO was just rubber stamp this without any tweaking whatsoever. In other words, I expect this pilot to have ths same issues all pilots have …. it's just that the vibe has been so good surrounding AGOT that perhaps we all (HBO included) fooled ourselves into believing that wouldn't be the case. MattQuote Reply
Transfering this from the previous thread as I didn't realize there was a new post already…
———-
Well thanks to Michael, About Yea High, WiC and Adam W for these enlightments.
@Adam
Interesting, I didn't know you had a foot in the industry. Early March sounds awesome!
@Michael
I get what you are saying. I was one of the first to "attack" you the first time around…. if by "attack" you mean my asking you to give us a hint about your source if you want to be taken seriously.
Of course, you can't "name" your sources, and we don't expect you to if those are compromising, as you need to protect your ass first of all. But you must understand that you can't just post something like that on a blog with no clue whatsoever as to why we should believe you supporting your statement. Other people have posted information here without revealing themselves completely but managed to gain our trust with hints as to where they work or how they heard their news.
There is also the fact that we are naturally suspicious of non-regular posters who could just happen to be messing with us.
Anyway, now that you insist and are staying around, although we still don't know much about you, I am willing to believe you, and would welcome any more information you are willing to share with us. NymeriaQuote Reply
First of all, I'm certainly not a troll. I love the series and am completely hopeful for a pick-up. That will never change. I'm not here to start or pick a fight. I'm fan just like the rest of you.
As far as HBO not liking it — you can ask anyone working in Hollywood — you really never know until you have the product. You can guess, you can estimate and you can brainstorm, but it's all down to the product. And from what I'm hearing is that they liked it, but it wasn't the earth-shattering, goose bump raising pilot they'd been hoping for. It certainly doesn't mean that show won't get green-lit and go on to win countless awards — it's just a mediocre first cut. Films have this same problem. It's a process. Michael SourcenatorQuote Reply
How does Michael beeing from LA make him more trustworthy? HBO headquarters is in NY, at least. sjweningsQuote Reply
@Michael
Do you know when the actual screening took place?
Was there a lot of enthusiasm in the days that lead to it by the people lucky enough to be invited to attend?
NymeriaQuote Reply
So lets recap:
Michael: "They did not like it."
Michael: "They liked it." sjweningsQuote Reply
It’s possible that Michael has a legit source and knows what he is talking about… Let’s give him a chance to explain himself and answer some questions before calling him a troll and attacking him. NicoleQuote Reply
And that's taken completely out of context. There's a reason why I came back, y'know… Michael SourcenatorQuote Reply
Taking Michael at face value that the producers are "back editing, trying to make it work”– I wonder what the re-edit would accomplish? Is it possible that the pilot won't begin with the book's prologue ("We should start back") or end where we have been assured that it does ("The things I do for love")? Dennis BrennanQuote Reply
The first post about this you simply said "They did not like it." That was your whole post. You did not elaborate.
And now you elaborate by saying "they DID like it, but…."
That doesn't work for me, at least. But hey. Give it another go if you want. Seriously, i'm not beeing sarcastic or anything. sjweningsQuote Reply
Hm … yes, good to keep the expectations low, then you can be positively surprised. It would be strange if there was no second thoughts about budgeting. Just wish we'd get a more official opinion soon, regardless of their green light decision, as I would want to know what HBO sincerely thinks. Marko HladnikQuote Reply
Correct. I said the word I was hearing was that HBO didn't like the pilot. Which is true. They didn't like it. Maybe I should have phrased it as "they didn't love it". That probably would have been better and more accurate. I've since elaborated. Michael SourcenatorQuote Reply
Keep in mind that the first part of a game of thrones ISN'T actually that earth shattering. It's ALOT of characters and ALOT of exposition. The whole Bran II theory came about because most die hard fans aren't hooked from page one, but from when Bran takes his tumble. Maybe HBO was expecting some insanely memorable scenes, but the books are a slow build up, containing so many characters and so much history that you know that Martin isn't dumbing anything down. The show will be the same way. Less explosive, more addictive. MattQuote Reply
I will quickly add that my 'sources' (who are second-hand at best) have not commented at all on this issue that Michael raised above, but all their prior indications from some weeks ago were that the pilot had been positively received and absolutely nothing beyond that.
My point in that statement, which was poorly worded, was that many pilots are works in progress, are often re-edited and even re-shot, and a problematic or even an outright weak pilot can be saved through judicious editing and selective reshoots. In addition, some pilots (like LOST's) appear weak or problematic in the editing room but are great when presented in their final cut with music and sfx added. All of that is personal opinion.
The only new sourced material I have is that HBO's decision should come closer to the start of March than the end, and it is unknown which way HBO will jump. My own opinion is that HBO should greenlight the series based on the vibe they are sending out so far. Adam WhiteheadQuote Reply
It's not hard to imagine that the pilot could have pacing problems, at the very least. The book itself has some pacing issues, especially early on. I know that I personally felt impatient with the story until the fateful "The things I do for love" scene. The first several chapters were slow, filled with unfamiliar names and history that was yet to be explained. Martin's approach of letting things be explained in context turns out to be a great strength of the books, but it's initially very difficult, and I know a few people who quit reading before page 85. Having a prologue so seemingly disconnected from the rest of the story doesn't help.
The flip side is that in pacing is something that is largely driven by editing, and this is especially true in movies and TV. If I'm right and the primary problem is pacing, this is something they can address.
mwjQuote Reply
I think it's only natural everyone involved in a work in progress has only good things to say about it, especially if it might be one they hope to be involved in for many years to come. In this light, every series ever was the best thing you hadn't seen yet…
So now the HBO guys may or may not be very impressed by the first cut, but I guess its kind of normal that they try to push the envelope to what they think will make it a commercial success. Minimising risk and maximising potential profil are their main concerns, which are vastly different from those of the creativ crew and cast.
Since it's already 3 month since the shooting wraped, I think we will manage to wait a few more weeks for the official statement. @Winter: what are your plans if they turn the show down?
DunkeltrollQuote Reply
Here's my problem with Micheal: you give no indication of how you came by this information other than you have a "source". So you come on a message board and start posting random "they didn't like it" comments. You do realize that is the equivalent of a school yard rumor of "I heard this from so and so"? Now if I had this information that you claim to have, I would have contacted Winter directly and gone from there. Winter has proven in the past that he hasn't given up any sources. I'm not calling you a liar, but you can see how this is pretty suspect? dizzy34Quote Reply
.Wait, you have said "they didn't like it" and you have said now that "they liked it". You may be legit, but you are really bad at sounding like it. ECUdanQuote Reply
All I can say that, again, I have a source that would… know this type of stuff, I guess. And I came on this site to share as I thought the dedicated fans would like to be privy to the information. I've never said that HBO hated the show or were disgusted by it — they just didn't love the first cut. So it's being edited. Which always happens. I can't contain people saying otherwise. Michael SourcenatorQuote Reply
I believe Michael. Thoughts – one, people screening had high expectations, understandingly. Two, it's a costly project, and one that is not safe – a slowly developing, complex story with a long arch, casting issues … Risky, given that the investment is big. But in the long run I'm sure it is going to pay out. Three, every pilot needs polishing. A combination of all these gives you a result Michael mentioned, I'd say, when people see the first cut. Marko HladnikQuote Reply
What Michael says is believable, its the way he says it that makes me react. sjweningsQuote Reply
Your first posting here happened to be quite short, disturbing in nature and from an unknown source all at once. Excuse me for reacting like I did, but it really made the impression you simply came in to throw a stink bomb.
Being critical about a project in such an early state is not only understandable, but indispensable for people in their position. It's their job to invest in the right projects, and right now they have a few to choose from.
If there would be valid reasons why HBO wouldn't go forward with GoT, and if these reasons would be presented to us fans in a detailed and comprehensible fashion, I guess we could live with it. Noone would be happy for sure, but TV is still a business and the ends have to meet somewhere. DunkeltrollQuote Reply
All the things you have mentioned above are true; costly project, enormous cast, complex story..etc, but IMO all that things were known well before the screening of the pilot.
I do not have to see the pilot on screen, to know all these things.
So I am asking myself, why would they (HBO) ever wanted to even greenlight the pilot, if they were aware of all that things.
I do not think so.
Just to tease us
I admit, I am not in the industry, and I know very little about the business, I just try to make it clear to me.
The rough cut of every pilot is not probably ever perfect. And it needs editing.
But who knows, will see it
It is not the end of the world if it will not be greenlighted. The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
really got scared when I saw your tweet (didn't have access to the link) icy cold.
SA_AvengerQuote Reply
A bit worried of course. We can't know without seeing it but everything seemed so much of quality so far that I (like almost everyone else) was 100% sure it'd be smooth greenlighting, apparently it isn't. Hope they can make it right in time
I'm remembering way back when to a time when Winter posted a report that an unnamed executive at HBO was airing misgivings about McCarthy as a director. That gave a bit more background as to who was talking and what exactly the "issue" was, so it was easier for us to discuss. @sgnpQuote Reply
Expanded on that:
Right now all we've gotten is that "a source that would… know this type of stuff" says that "HBO" "just didn't love the first cut."
"HBO" is such a broad bucket, as is "a source that would…know this type of stuff." It doesn't matter that Michael is in LA as far as how he gets his information. For example, an editor working at the post-production company who had to go-back and re-edit the pilot could relay this to a friend. A driver may have overheard a conversation on the way back from the screening. We're jumping to conclusions if we assume that the reason Michael has this information is because he knows someone in the "inner circle" of HBO that complained to him about the pilot.
With all the time, effort, and money that has gone into the pilot, I have a hard time believing that they'd want any negatives about it coming from there camp. As many have mentioned, both HBO and third-parties have publicly praised what they've seen so far.
So, I'm not saying Michael's information isn't legit, just that I'm betting it's gleaned from a report from a non-decision maker.
If that's *not* the case, Michael may want to be a bit more cautious about spreading information told to him in confidence around the web like this. If casting leaks were causing problems, I can't imagine how someone leaking negative reports about the pilot would be viewed.
Regardless, as many have stated, this sounds like part of the pilot process. I think the only thing unusual about it is that the fact that there's going to be another edit has been made public. @sgnpQuote Reply
Expanded on that:
Right now all we've gotten is that "a source that would… know this type of stuff" says that "HBO" "just didn't love the first cut."
"HBO" is such a broad bucket, as is "a source that would…know this type of stuff." It doesn't matter that Michael is in LA as far as how he gets his information. For example, an editor working at the post-production company who had to go-back and re-edit the pilot could relay this to a friend. A driver may have overheard a conversation on the way back from the screening. We're jumping to conclusions if we assume that the reason Michael has this information is because he knows someone in the "inner circle" of HBO that complained to him about the pilot.
With all the time, effort, and money that has gone into the pilot, I have a hard time believing that they'd want any negatives about it coming from there camp. As many have mentioned, both HBO and third-parties have publicly praised what they've seen so far.
So, I'm not saying Michael's information isn't legit, just that I'm betting it's gleaned from a report from a non-decision maker.
If that's *not* the case, Michael may want to be a bit more cautious about spreading information told to him in confidence around the web like this. If casting leaks were causing problems, I can't imagine how someone leaking negative reports about the pilot would be viewed.
Regardless, as many have stated, this sounds like part of the pilot process. I think the only thing unusual about it is that the fact that there's going to be another edit has been made public. @sgnpQuote Reply
I'm interested in knowing what they liked and did not like. Michael, you say they liked Sean Bean, does that mean that in general the Winterfell parts worked well, or were there actors they were not impressed with there? I can't imagine that Dinkalage was anything but great. I'm making a leap here, I know, but I suspect from this info that perhaps they found Dany's scenes to be weaker than the others – which is what the fans feared all along. Any thoughts? Lord_of_StarfalQuote Reply
Don't worry guys, about a thing, cause every little thing is gonna be alright. BobQuote Reply
I was really skeptical of Michael's initial post to the site. It's tone screamed "troll" to me. But, since then, he's come back to explain himself. How many times does he have to say it? I think the message here is that HBO saw the pilot, wasn't as wow'd as they'd hoped to be, and are working on it. So they didnt leave the screening clapping and jumping for joy … apparently that happens.
Give Michael a break. He's a fan. I think he was trying to toss in some realistic expectations amid all the wishful thinking. It kinda looks like some people are taking his comments too personally.
It's so nice to get these tid-bits of information, and I'm so appreciative of WiC for putting this all together for us! It's fun to dream, discuss, and speculate, but it doesnt change anything. As eager as we are to see it air, we simply dont know the decision yet. @RahBurQuote Reply
Really the most likely scenario is that he is trolling, if in a slightly more elaborate style than your typical garden-variety troll. This blog is a particularly easy target, given its relatively high level of fanboy fanaticism. I don't mean any disrespect when I say that (I mean I'm making a post here too). But this is a blog about a tv show that hasn't even been picked up yet, based on a series of books that itself has a relatively small and extremely loyal fanbase. There are few small fans here.
But to hell with the likely scenario, I propose a much more interesting one.While HBO might not have been overly happy about this site possibly spoiling casting announcements, they can't be disappointed in the online buzz that it generated. News about the show really died down after the casting finished, and the online buzz with it. If I were someone behind the scenes trying to stir up buzz, without actually being seen to do so, a simply anonymous rumor like this is the perfect way to do so. PersonalJusticeQuote Reply
I like how peoples definition of "troll" is just "someone who opposes or disagrees with one's own ideas, hopes, or way of thinking." @thedude37Quote Reply
I wouldn't stress to much about it. For example, "The office" (american version) and "30 Rock" was regarded by the studio as not a very good pilot, yet the show got picked up and became a success. However, as far as HBO is concerned remember that the "True Blood" was as well received as they hoped which led to the recasting of Tara (and refilming of those scenes). @thedude37Quote Reply
When I think about it, I realize that there has been, essentially, nothing but good news about this series since the announcement of HBO optioning it so very long ago. It makes sense that we would try to knock-down or minimize bad news, for we are spoiled.
I ask, can't we look at this news and accept it? Given the piles of good news we have had over the last few years, isn't this something we can live with? Lord_of_StarfalQuote Reply
The bad news itself is not the issue there.
The issue is that the bad new was brought to us in such a strange way, on this very blog.
If I found it on someones tweet on the entire net, I would believe it.
If someone told me: well, the pilot has not been accepted very well by the HBO heads because of that and that thing, I would be sad, but I could live with it.
Every bit of good news we heard so far (from different sources was argumented somehow.), but sadly, maybe Micahel is telling the truth, but if I were him I would written that differnetly, thats for sure.
The_Rabbit01Quote Reply
The more I read this stuff the dumber I feel. At this point I could come on with a random name and say, "Just got word, they are on the verge of axing the whole thing because Dinklage scared one of the exec's kids…" and it would have just as much credibilty as the initial post causing controversy.
But he could also be 100% right, all I am saying is there is nothing here yet that warrants any real attention. ECUdanQuote Reply
I believe, that Michael is maybe telling us the truth. We want it so desperately, that we are blinded to accept anything negative.
There was so much buzz about it, that HBO execs expected something perfect and they were probably dissapointed with what they saw. We all want the show, because we love the books and we know them well, but if somebody showed me rough cut of first episode from GoT, i would be maybe dissapointed too (if i would not knew the books in that moment) aSoIaF is run for long distance and i fear that by the time that GoT will get to the point, where it is fantastic, there will be only us fans of the books and few other viewers watching it. Because average viewers are very impatient and they want tons of action a interesting things to happen in every single episode. And they dont forgive.
Sorry for not being optimistic, but i cant help myself.
I think that the show will get greenlight, but there will be no more than one season. MoldaQuote Reply
Oh my goodness. Just got so nervous when I saw your tweet with this blog post. I wish we could screen the pilot, too! @AjanelewisQuote Reply
For what it's worth, I think that if there are any glaring problems with the pilot, they've still got time for plenty of editing and tweaking and fixing. It would be sad if the pilot isn't earth-shattering (and I think all of this hype has made it so that we kind of expect to be earth-shattering), but at the same time, as long as it's solid enough to get the green light then they'll have even more time to make it awesome.
And, even if the first episode isn't as brilliant as we're expecting, if the series as a whole just takes a little time to develop into something majestic, we'll all still be happy to be able to see it.
BlueQuote Reply
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